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Did a brake flush damage my master cylinder?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 7th 05, 12:39 AM
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Default Did a brake flush damage my master cylinder?

I recently had the brake fluid flushed on my '95 Honda Civic (80k
miles). A week later I noticed my brake pedal would slowly sink to the
floor while I was waiting at red lights. I took the car back to the
service center (part of a large national chain), and they correctly
determined that the master cylinder was the culprit. They denied,
however, that the brake flush had anything to do with the master
cylinder failure. (To hear the office manager tell it, you would think
the master cylinder was totally unrelated to the brakes.)

Now I'm not a mechanic, but I'm having a hard time believing that the
master cylinder just happened to give out when it did.

Earlier today I read that the seals on the master cylinder can be
damaged if the mechanic drains the brake fluid by depressing the brake
pedal all the way to the floor, and that a professional shop should use
other equipment to get the job done.

Am I wrong for assuming the mechanic took some shortcut (or just didn't
know better) and ended up damaging the master cylinder?
Or is this the kind of thing where, even if done correctly, the master
cylinder still can get damaged?

(I did read a comment that it's not uncommon to have to replace the
master cylinder after having your brakes worked on.)

The new master cylinder cost $260. If the mechanic was negligent, I
don't want to have to pay for it. If, however, it's just part of owning
a ten year old car, I'll suck it up.

What do you think?

- Kevin

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  #2  
Old July 7th 05, 12:54 AM
mst
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Default

) scribbled:

> Am I wrong for assuming the mechanic took some shortcut (or just didn't
> know better) and ended up damaging the master cylinder?


Probable.

> Or is this the kind of thing where, even if done correctly, the master
> cylinder still can get damaged?
> (I did read a comment that it's not uncommon to have to replace the
> master cylinder after having your brakes worked on.)


Happened to me recently. Replaced *ALL* calipers with new ones,
new rotors all the way around, new pads, new lines. Bled the
brakes - never could get a solid pedal.

Turned out, once I replaced the master, all was fine. And there
wasnt anything wrong with the system in the first place - I had
a nice solid pedal. It was time to do a brake job anyway, and I
figured with 190k miles, I might as well redo the whole system
(sans the master).

--
remove MYSHOES to email
  #3  
Old July 7th 05, 01:29 AM
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Default

>
> Earlier today I read that the seals on the master cylinder can be
> damaged if the mechanic drains the brake fluid by depressing the brake
> pedal all the way to the floor, and that a professional shop should use
> other equipment to get the job done.



Nope, not true. Mechanics have bled brakes for decades by applying
pressure,
loosening the cocks, and allowing bubbles and old brake fluid to exit.

You dont have to use fancy equipment, although it makes the job faster,
though
not necessarily better. Doesnt hurt anything.


  #5  
Old July 7th 05, 06:10 AM
Daniel J. Stern
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Default

On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 wrote:

> I recently had the brake fluid flushed on my '95 Honda Civic (80k
> miles).


Good for you for thinking to do so. Most people never give their brake
fluid a thought.

> A week later I noticed my brake pedal would slowly sink to the
> floor while I was waiting at red lights. I took the car back to the
> service center (part of a large national chain)


Stop going to large national chains. It is almost always a poor idea.

> they correctly determined that the master cylinder was the culprit. They
> denied, however, that the brake flush had anything to do with the master
> cylinder failure.


Horse****.

> (To hear the office manager tell it, you would think the master cylinder
> was totally unrelated to the brakes.)


See above re national chains.

> Earlier today I read that the seals on the master cylinder can be
> damaged if the mechanic drains the brake fluid by depressing the brake
> pedal all the way to the floor, and that a professional shop should use
> other equipment to get the job done.


That is exactly right. Scunge, corrosion and rust build up in the area of
the cylinder where the piston never normally travels. If the bleeders are
opened and the pedal pressed to the floor, it forces the piston and its
seals into this area of rough crud and corrosion, which can tear up the
seals and abrade the piston, failing the master cylinder in short order. A
pressure bleeder is the correct equipment with which to do a brake fluid
flush.

> The new master cylinder cost $260. If the mechanic was negligent, I
> don't want to have to pay for it. If, however, it's just part of owning
> a ten year old car, I'll suck it up. What do you think?


It's not part of owning a 10-year-old car, necessarily, but you'll never
prove it. You're probably stuck for the $260, but turn it into a valuable
lesson: Find a real mechanic! Every town has independent Honda
specialists.
  #7  
Old July 7th 05, 10:55 AM
larry moe 'n curly
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Default

The manager is a big fat liar because lots of do-it-yourself articles
refer to the very same problem. You may find something about it at
www.popularmechanics.com (I once read about it in the printed
magazine's automotive Q&A column) or www.motor.com (back issues of
Motor magazine). I ruined Dad's master cylinder the first time I ever
flushed brakes, and as a result I've never pushed the pedal too far
while flushing, and I've never ruined a master cylinder since then.

You should file a complaint at www.bbb.org and any regulatory or
consumer agencies and also do a credit card chargeback for the work
already done.

  #8  
Old July 7th 05, 12:52 PM
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Default


> wrote in message
. ..
> >
> > Earlier today I read that the seals on the master cylinder can be
> > damaged if the mechanic drains the brake fluid by depressing the brake
> > pedal all the way to the floor, and that a professional shop should use
> > other equipment to get the job done.

>
>
> Nope, not true. Mechanics have bled brakes for decades by applying
> pressure,
> loosening the cocks, and allowing bubbles and old brake fluid to exit.
>
> You dont have to use fancy equipment, although it makes the job faster,
> though
> not necessarily better. Doesnt hurt anything.
>
>



  #9  
Old July 7th 05, 12:54 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


> wrote in message
. ..
> >
> > Earlier today I read that the seals on the master cylinder can be
> > damaged if the mechanic drains the brake fluid by depressing the brake
> > pedal all the way to the floor, and that a professional shop should use
> > other equipment to get the job done.

>
>
> Nope, not true. Mechanics have bled brakes for decades by applying
> pressure,
> loosening the cocks, and allowing bubbles and old brake fluid to exit.
>
> You dont have to use fancy equipment, although it makes the job faster,
> though
> not necessarily better. Doesnt hurt anything.


Ive seen this done, and done it myself for years, but have never damaged a
master cylinder. Still, the logic is there that it could happen, and I have
to
retract my statement above. Just because I always got away with it doesnt
mean it doesnt happen.


 




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