Gas pump programing problem could cost you a bundle

Several months ago, armed with a new debit card whose PIN I was having
trouble remembering, I went to our local Meijer gas station to buy gas,
put in my card, and punched in 4 digits even though I was not sure they
were correct. When the pump allowed me to pump gas, I assumed that I had
got the PIN right. But when I replaced the nozzle, instead of getting a
receipt, I saw a "Please pay inside" message. When I went inside to find
out what was going on, the cashier told me that the card had been
declined. I then used the same card and a different set of 4 digits and
all was OK.

But what would have happened if I hadn't waited for a receipt and simply
jumped in the car and driven off? Or what would have happened if that
card had been the only means of paying for the gas and I had been unable
to remember the PIN and pay for the gas I had already pumped.
Undoubtedly I would have found myself in big trouble either way.

A little while later I went to the customer service desk and told them
what happened. They said that sounded very strange and they would report
it, but today I was told that the pumps still do the same thing.

Why on earth are the pumps programmed to allow me to pump gas when the
card has been declined?

I have no idea whether other gas stations' pumps are the same, but IMO
it's something you should keep in mind.

Perce

> Why on earth are the pumps programmed to allow me to pump gas when the
> card has been declined?

It's not a problem, it's a feature. Gas pumps have a feature, that people
can pump gas from them and then pay inside. Surely you must know that. Your
question sounds like you need to get some perspective. You're not the only
person that uses that gas pump. The people who own it have to make some
decisions about what it will do. So they gave it that feature.

Now, you should get a receipt. I admit it's a pain, but if it doesn't print
one, go inside and get one. That's the only proof you have that you paid.

On Wed, 25 May 2005 18:39:02 -0400, "Joe" > wrote:

>
>> Why on earth are the pumps programmed to allow me to pump gas when the
>> card has been declined?
>
>It's not a problem, it's a feature. Gas pumps have a feature, that people
>can pump gas from them and then pay inside. Surely you must know that. Your
>question sounds like you need to get some perspective. You're not the only
>person that uses that gas pump. The people who own it have to make some
>decisions about what it will do. So they gave it that feature.
>
>Now, you should get a receipt. I admit it's a pain, but if it doesn't print
>one, go inside and get one. That's the only proof you have that you paid.
>
The pump SHOULD tell you the card is declined before allowing you to
pump the gas if you have elected to pay at the pump.
You would, however, be in the same "fix" if you inteded to pay at the
cashier and the card was no good.
Some inner city stations require you to pay before pumping - and many
others require this after dark.
Security reasons.

wrote:

>>> Why on earth are the pumps programmed to allow me to pump gas
>>> when the card has been declined?
>
>> It's not a problem, it's a feature. Gas pumps have a feature,
>
> The pump SHOULD tell you the card is declined before allowing
> you to pump the gas if you have elected to pay at the pump.
>
> You would, however, be in the same "fix" if you inteded to pay
> at the cashier and the card was no good.
>
> Some inner city stations require you to pay before pumping
> - and many others require this after dark.

The last few times I was in California, when filling up a rental car,
when *trying* to pay at the pump, I was prompted for the zip code of
the billing address of my credit card. Naturally I was not able to
enter my alpha-numeric *postal code* on the pump's keypad. I had to
pay inside. I don't think I've encountered this anywhere else but
california.

But yes, if your card is declined at the pump, and the pump allowed
you to pump gas, and you don't have the cash to cover the payment, and
your card is *also* declined at the cashier, then you're screwed and
the pump shouldn't have allowed you to pump.

That said, when-ever the pump tells me there is a problem with my
card, and repeated swiping doesn't fix the situation, I will usually
go to another adjacent pump where the card is accepted by the scanner.

On 05/25/05 06:39 pm Joe tossed the following ingredients into the
ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

>>Why on earth are the pumps programmed to allow me to pump gas when the
>>card has been declined?

> It's not a problem, it's a feature. Gas pumps have a feature, that people
> can pump gas from them and then pay inside. Surely you must know that. Your
> question sounds like you need to get some perspective. You're not the only
> person that uses that gas pump. The people who own it have to make some
> decisions about what it will do. So they gave it that feature.
>
> Now, you should get a receipt. I admit it's a pain, but if it doesn't print
> one, go inside and get one. That's the only proof you have that you paid.

Yes, but I had elected to pay at the pump using my card, and the machine
did not tell me that the card had been declined and allowed me to pump
gas anyway.

Perce

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message: "Several months ago, armed with a
new debit card whose PIN I was having
trouble remembering, I went to our local Meijer gas station to buy gas, put
in my card, and punched in 4 digits even though I was not sure they were
correct. When the pump allowed me to pump gas, I assumed that I had got the
PIN right. But when I replaced the nozzle, instead of getting a receipt, I
saw a "Please pay inside" message. When I went inside to find out what was
going on, the cashier told me that the card had been declined. I then used
the same card and a different set of 4 digits and all was OK.
But what would have happened if I hadn't waited for a receipt and simply
jumped in the car and driven off? Or what would have happened if that card
had been the only means of paying for the gas and I had been unable to
remember the PIN and pay for the gas I had already pumped. Undoubtedly I
would have found myself in big trouble either way.
A little while later I went to the customer service desk and told them what
happened. They said that sounded very strange and they would report it, but
today I was told that the pumps still do the same thing.
Why on earth are the pumps programmed to allow me to pump gas when the card
has been declined?
I have no idea whether other gas stations' pumps are the same, but IMO it's
something you should keep in mind."


All the Shell stations in my area have a sign on them about not driving off
when using either credit card or debit card to pay for gas unless you are
prompted for a receipt. The sign also says that if you drive off and your
card is declined you will be subject to the same laws as those that pump and
drive off. That would mean you would be arrested for theft and your
driver's license would be suspend for 1 year and have to pay the state a 500
dollar reinstatement fee to get it back. Not to mention having to go to
court, miss a day of work, be found guilty and have to pay a fine,
restitution and court cost. Not worth the hassle.

Word of advice, next time just use it as a credit card instead of a debit
card. It will go through and you won't have to enter a pin.

Sarge

On 05/26/05 12:51 am Sarge tossed the following ingredients into the
ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

> Why on earth are the pumps programmed to allow me to pump gas when the card
> has been declined?
> I have no idea whether other gas stations' pumps are the same, but IMO it's
> something you should keep in mind."

> All the Shell stations in my area have a sign on them about not driving off
> when using either credit card or debit card to pay for gas unless you are
> prompted for a receipt. The sign also says that if you drive off and your
> card is declined you will be subject to the same laws as those that pump and
> drive off. That would mean you would be arrested for theft and your
> driver's license would be suspend for 1 year and have to pay the state a 500
> dollar reinstatement fee to get it back. Not to mention having to go to
> court, miss a day of work, be found guilty and have to pay a fine,
> restitution and court cost. Not worth the hassle.
>
> Word of advice, next time just use it as a credit card instead of a debit
> card. It will go through and you won't have to enter a pin.


Good point about using it as a credit card rather than as a debit card.
But if, in spite of the message I see on the screen about "authorization
in progress" (or words with similar meaning), it allows me to pump gas
even though the card has been declined, perhaps it would also allow me
to pump gas even though a CC had expired or was already maxed out.

Why is it too difficult (or, as one poster has suggested, undesirable)
to program the pump so that, if the wrong PIN is entered, it refuses to
pump gas -- perhaps accompanied by a prompt to re-enter the PIN? My
bank's ATM knows not to give me cash if I mess up the PIN; why can't the
gas pump?

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote: "Good point about using it as a credit card
rather than as a debit card. But if, in spite of the message I see on the
screen about "authorization in progress" (or words with similar meaning), it
allows me to pump gas even though the card has been declined, perhaps it
would also allow me to pump gas even though a CC had expired or was already
maxed out.
Why is it too difficult (or, as one poster has suggested, undesirable) to
program the pump so that, if the wrong PIN is entered, it refuses to pump
gas -- perhaps accompanied by a prompt to re-enter the PIN? My bank's ATM
knows not to give me cash if I mess up the PIN; why can't the gas pump?"

To simple. They want you to come inside to buy other things. Surveys have
shown if you have to go inside, you will most likely pickup other things
such as drinks, candy, gum, cigarettes, or like in Louisiana some ice cold
beer for the ride home from work.

Sarge

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

> But what would have happened if I hadn't waited for a receipt and simply
> jumped in the car and driven off?

If the station operator got your licence plate, you'd probably have
received a visit from a nice, but insistent, police officer.

> Or what would have happened if that
> card had been the only means of paying for the gas and I had been unable
> to remember the PIN and pay for the gas I had already pumped.
> Undoubtedly I would have found myself in big trouble either way.

And whose fault is that?


Look, there are a thousand and one reasons NOT to use a debit card for
gasoline.... the ones you're singling out are trivial. Use a REAL credit
card with fraud protection, not a debit card.

On 05/26/05 04:06 pm Steve tossed the following ingredients into the
ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

>> But what would have happened if I hadn't waited for a receipt and
>> simply jumped in the car and driven off?

> If the station operator got your licence plate, you'd probably have
> received a visit from a nice, but insistent, police officer.

That's what I had in mind.

>> Or what would have happened if that card had been the only means of
>> paying for the gas and I had been unable to remember the PIN and pay
>> for the gas I had already pumped. Undoubtedly I would have found
>> myself in big trouble either way.

> And whose fault is that?

But if I had been informed that the PIN was wrong, I wouldn't have
pumped the gas, would I?

Don't forget that (as I mentioned in my original message) the customer
service people in the store agreed that the pump's behavior was wrong,
and they said they would report it.

> Look, there are a thousand and one reasons NOT to use a debit card for
> gasoline.... the ones you're singling out are trivial. Use a REAL credit
> card with fraud protection, not a debit card.

I have two "real credit cards" in addition to the card in question,
which can be used as either debit card or credit card. But we have
tended to used the debit mode for gasoline because the amount is usually
far less than other transactions and it reduces the lump sum to paid at
the end of the month.

Perce