New starter continually runs

I was wondering if anybody out there might be able to give me some
insight to an issue that I have with a brand new starter I just
installed on a '95 Wrangler SE. The installation required that I use a
new batter terminal connection because the stock wires were to short to
reach the ground and hot wire posts on the starter. This new
connection required that I splice the wires coming out of the fuse box
that holds the relay swithc for the starter and the fuses for other
sensors and switches (ie fuel pump). The problem comes in when I
reconnect the hook-ups to the batter terminals the starter turns on and
won't turn off, even with the key out of the ignition. When the key is
in the on position the starter will turn over the engine, but still
won't turn off. The only way to turn off the starter is to disconnect
the battery again.

I haven't replaced the starter relay or the ignition switch yet and
think that may be the cause of the issue, however I wanted to see if
somebody had this type of experience or had some other insight into the
possible cause.

Thanks in advanced!

Erik

Would you please explain what 'kind' of freaking starter you are trying
to shoehorn in there and why didn't you just use a "Jeep" starter that
matches your vehicle??

You have the wiring wrong.

There is a trigger wire that energises the starter solenoid and/or
starter relay when the key is turned to run. You have this wire hooked
to power instead of to the keyswitch.

Just a wild guess, but it might be the two green wires on the
solenoid/relay in the wrong place.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

wrote:
> I was wondering if anybody out there might be able to give me some
> insight to an issue that I have with a brand new starter I just
> installed on a '95 Wrangler SE. The installation required that I use a
> new batter terminal connection because the stock wires were to short to
> reach the ground and hot wire posts on the starter. This new
> connection required that I splice the wires coming out of the fuse box
> that holds the relay swithc for the starter and the fuses for other
> sensors and switches (ie fuel pump). The problem comes in when I
> reconnect the hook-ups to the batter terminals the starter turns on and
> won't turn off, even with the key out of the ignition. When the key is
> in the on position the starter will turn over the engine, but still
> won't turn off. The only way to turn off the starter is to disconnect
> the battery again.
>
> I haven't replaced the starter relay or the ignition switch yet and
> think that may be the cause of the issue, however I wanted to see if
> somebody had this type of experience or had some other insight into the
> possible cause.
>
> Thanks in advanced!
>
> Erik
>

Its a Mean Green Starter made for my 2.5L engine. The starter does
match my vehicle and there isnt any freaking shoehorning going on.
First off there ins't two green wires going to solenoid genius. 1 Hot 1
Ground. The power comes straight from the battery to the solendoid
then the starter relay with the ignition completes the circuit. As I
stated before It is quite possible that the relay is bad and that I was
in the process of changing it.

But thanks I will look for the trigger wire that energises the starter
or starter relay and ensure that isn't to power.


On Jan 25, 9:52 am, Mike Romain > wrote:
> Would you please explain what 'kind' of freaking starter you are trying
> to shoehorn in there and why didn't you just use a "Jeep" starter that
> matches your vehicle??
>
> You have the wiring wrong.
>
> There is a trigger wire that energises the starter solenoid and/or
> starter relay when the key is turned to run. You have this wire hooked
> to power instead of to the keyswitch.
>
> Just a wild guess, but it might be the two green wires on the
> solenoid/relay in the wrong place.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> wrote:
> > I was wondering if anybody out there might be able to give me some
> > insight to an issue that I have with a brand new starter I just
> > installed on a '95 Wrangler SE. The installation required that I use a
> > new batter terminal connection because the stock wires were to short to
> > reach the ground and hot wire posts on the starter. This new
> > connection required that I splice the wires coming out of the fuse box
> > that holds the relay swithc for the starter and the fuses for other
> > sensors and switches (ie fuel pump). The problem comes in when I
> > reconnect the hook-ups to the batter terminals the starter turns on and
> > won't turn off, even with the key out of the ignition. When the key is
> > in the on position the starter will turn over the engine, but still
> > won't turn off. The only way to turn off the starter is to disconnect
> > the battery again.
>
> > I haven't replaced the starter relay or the ignition switch yet and
> > think that may be the cause of the issue, however I wanted to see if
> > somebody had this type of experience or had some other insight into the
> > possible cause.
>
> > Thanks in advanced!
>
> > Erik

If the starter matches your vehicle then there won't be any need to splice
wires to reach the terminals. It is possible that these starters varied
somewhat from year to year and that an exact match is not available. That's
a drag, but it happens.

Don't mind Mike, he's Canadian. ;^)

Earle

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Its a Mean Green Starter made for my 2.5L engine. The starter does
> match my vehicle and there isnt any freaking shoehorning going on.
> First off there ins't two green wires going to solenoid genius. 1 Hot 1
> Ground. The power comes straight from the battery to the solendoid
> then the starter relay with the ignition completes the circuit. As I
> stated before It is quite possible that the relay is bad and that I was
> in the process of changing it.
>
> But thanks I will look for the trigger wire that energises the starter
> or starter relay and ensure that isn't to power.
>
>
> On Jan 25, 9:52 am, Mike Romain > wrote:
> > Would you please explain what 'kind' of freaking starter you are trying
> > to shoehorn in there and why didn't you just use a "Jeep" starter that
> > matches your vehicle??
> >
> > You have the wiring wrong.
> >
> > There is a trigger wire that energises the starter solenoid and/or
> > starter relay when the key is turned to run. You have this wire hooked
> > to power instead of to the keyswitch.
> >
> > Just a wild guess, but it might be the two green wires on the
> > solenoid/relay in the wrong place.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> > wrote:
> > > I was wondering if anybody out there might be able to give me some
> > > insight to an issue that I have with a brand new starter I just
> > > installed on a '95 Wrangler SE. The installation required that I use
a
> > > new batter terminal connection because the stock wires were to short
to
> > > reach the ground and hot wire posts on the starter. This new
> > > connection required that I splice the wires coming out of the fuse box
> > > that holds the relay swithc for the starter and the fuses for other
> > > sensors and switches (ie fuel pump). The problem comes in when I
> > > reconnect the hook-ups to the batter terminals the starter turns on
and
> > > won't turn off, even with the key out of the ignition. When the key
is
> > > in the on position the starter will turn over the engine, but still
> > > won't turn off. The only way to turn off the starter is to disconnect
> > > the battery again.
> >
> > > I haven't replaced the starter relay or the ignition switch yet and
> > > think that may be the cause of the issue, however I wanted to see if
> > > somebody had this type of experience or had some other insight into
the
> > > possible cause.
> >
> > > Thanks in advanced!
> >
> > > Erik
>

> insight into the possible cause.

You've either miswired it, or the relay is stuck on.

If the starter matched your vehicle, you would not need to lengthen
wires or splice into the harness, it would just bolt and plug in.
Simple eh.

So whoever sold you that starter sold you a really screwed up one you
can 'convert' to 'fit' a Jeep, not a Jeep one. Lots of starters can be
converted to fit a Jeep.

Oh and a 'solenoid' by definition has to have a power in, power out and
a trigger and a ground. Any other part you might be looking at is 'not
a solenoid.

On the last YJ and XJ I worked on, there were two green wires floating
around the starter relay. When these get switched, the starter runs
when you hook on the battery cable. They were 6 cylinder engines though.

Mike

wrote:
> Its a Mean Green Starter made for my 2.5L engine. The starter does
> match my vehicle and there isnt any freaking shoehorning going on.
> First off there ins't two green wires going to solenoid genius. 1 Hot 1
> Ground. The power comes straight from the battery to the solendoid
> then the starter relay with the ignition completes the circuit. As I
> stated before It is quite possible that the relay is bad and that I was
> in the process of changing it.
>
> But thanks I will look for the trigger wire that energises the starter
> or starter relay and ensure that isn't to power.
>
>
> On Jan 25, 9:52 am, Mike Romain > wrote:
>> Would you please explain what 'kind' of freaking starter you are trying
>> to shoehorn in there and why didn't you just use a "Jeep" starter that
>> matches your vehicle??
>>
>> You have the wiring wrong.
>>
>> There is a trigger wire that energises the starter solenoid and/or
>> starter relay when the key is turned to run. You have this wire hooked
>> to power instead of to the keyswitch.
>>
>> Just a wild guess, but it might be the two green wires on the
>> solenoid/relay in the wrong place.
>>
>> Mike
>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>
>> wrote:
>>> I was wondering if anybody out there might be able to give me some
>>> insight to an issue that I have with a brand new starter I just
>>> installed on a '95 Wrangler SE. The installation required that I use a
>>> new batter terminal connection because the stock wires were to short to
>>> reach the ground and hot wire posts on the starter. This new
>>> connection required that I splice the wires coming out of the fuse box
>>> that holds the relay swithc for the starter and the fuses for other
>>> sensors and switches (ie fuel pump). The problem comes in when I
>>> reconnect the hook-ups to the batter terminals the starter turns on and
>>> won't turn off, even with the key out of the ignition. When the key is
>>> in the on position the starter will turn over the engine, but still
>>> won't turn off. The only way to turn off the starter is to disconnect
>>> the battery again.
>>> I haven't replaced the starter relay or the ignition switch yet and
>>> think that may be the cause of the issue, however I wanted to see if
>>> somebody had this type of experience or had some other insight into the
>>> possible cause.
>>> Thanks in advanced!
>>> Erik
>

Sounds like they gave him a Ford Starter instead of the GM one if all he
sees on the starter 'solenoid' is two wires. He is likely looking at
the starter 'motor' and needs a whole ****load of new parts and wires to
make the Ford one work.

Mike

Earle Horton wrote:
> If the starter matches your vehicle then there won't be any need to splice
> wires to reach the terminals. It is possible that these starters varied
> somewhat from year to year and that an exact match is not available. That's
> a drag, but it happens.
>
> Don't mind Mike, he's Canadian. ;^)
>
> Earle
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Its a Mean Green Starter made for my 2.5L engine. The starter does
>> match my vehicle and there isnt any freaking shoehorning going on.
>> First off there ins't two green wires going to solenoid genius. 1 Hot 1
>> Ground. The power comes straight from the battery to the solendoid
>> then the starter relay with the ignition completes the circuit. As I
>> stated before It is quite possible that the relay is bad and that I was
>> in the process of changing it.
>>
>> But thanks I will look for the trigger wire that energises the starter
>> or starter relay and ensure that isn't to power.
>>
>>
>> On Jan 25, 9:52 am, Mike Romain > wrote:
>>> Would you please explain what 'kind' of freaking starter you are trying
>>> to shoehorn in there and why didn't you just use a "Jeep" starter that
>>> matches your vehicle??
>>>
>>> You have the wiring wrong.
>>>
>>> There is a trigger wire that energises the starter solenoid and/or
>>> starter relay when the key is turned to run. You have this wire hooked
>>> to power instead of to the keyswitch.
>>>
>>> Just a wild guess, but it might be the two green wires on the
>>> solenoid/relay in the wrong place.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I was wondering if anybody out there might be able to give me some
>>>> insight to an issue that I have with a brand new starter I just
>>>> installed on a '95 Wrangler SE. The installation required that I use
> a
>>>> new batter terminal connection because the stock wires were to short
> to
>>>> reach the ground and hot wire posts on the starter. This new
>>>> connection required that I splice the wires coming out of the fuse box
>>>> that holds the relay swithc for the starter and the fuses for other
>>>> sensors and switches (ie fuel pump). The problem comes in when I
>>>> reconnect the hook-ups to the batter terminals the starter turns on
> and
>>>> won't turn off, even with the key out of the ignition. When the key
> is
>>>> in the on position the starter will turn over the engine, but still
>>>> won't turn off. The only way to turn off the starter is to disconnect
>>>> the battery again.
>>>> I haven't replaced the starter relay or the ignition switch yet and
>>>> think that may be the cause of the issue, however I wanted to see if
>>>> somebody had this type of experience or had some other insight into
> the
>>>> possible cause.
>>>> Thanks in advanced!
>>>> Erik
>
>

wrote:
> Its a Mean Green Starter made for my 2.5L engine. The starter does
> match my vehicle and there isnt any freaking shoehorning going on.
> First off there ins't two green wires going to solenoid genius. 1 Hot 1
> Ground. The power comes straight from the battery to the solendoid
> then the starter relay with the ignition completes the circuit. As I
> stated before It is quite possible that the relay is bad and that I was
> in the process of changing it.
>
> But thanks I will look for the trigger wire that energises the starter
> or starter relay and ensure that isn't to power.
>
>


It's amazing to me the people that will make proclamations about a guys
gear sight unseen. Anyhow...

As far as I can tell it wouldn't be your ignition switch. I'd guess if
there were something wrong there you'd have other symptoms like power to
items that shouldn't have power when the key is off. It looks to me
like either your starter relay is bad, or the solenoid at the starter
itself might be bad.

The only wires going to your starter relay should be red and yellow with
no green in sight but I doubt these are even easily visible. There
should be a red hot wire straight from the battery to your starter
solenoid and a brown wire from the starter relay to the starter
solenoid. Of course that's on a stock system so your mean green MAY be
changing things around but I'm not too familiar with them other than I
"think" their starter is a high torque mini starter (maybe that explains
why the wires won't reach).

If the starter relay is stuck that could cause your starter run-on
problem, of if the starter solenoid is stuck you could get the same issue.

Disconnect the brown wire from the starter solenoid and hook up your
battery. If the starter takes off the starter solenoid is bad. If it
doesn't take off check for power at the brown wire. If you have power
there with the key in the off position then the starter relay is bad.

At least that's the story I'm telling. Good luck.

The last post is the story im sticking with too. I went home over
lunch and took a good hard look to make sure wasn't missing wires or
anything tucked away when I removed the old starter. There are only
two wires going to the starter, one hot(red) that comes from the
battery and one black that comes from the relay.

There isn't any other electrical devices turned on when the ingnition
switch is turned off. And all electrical systems work when the switch
is turned on, so I agree in that I don't think its the electrical
switch.

I did take the black wire off the starter and reconnected the batter
and the starter as Tom described started again. I was unware if this
ment the starter was bad, but from what Tom is saying sounds like the
solenoid is crap and needs replaced.

The only reason I needed to splice extensions onto the wires from the
battery and the relay is because on the stock starter the posts for the
two wires come off the solenoid at around an 11 oclock position. With
the mean green starter the posts come off at a 6 oclock position. Its
just a different arrangement of solenoid position to the starter motor
position, is my opinion anyway.


So looks like its a defective from factory starter that needs to be
replaced. Thanks for your guy's help!
........ Even you Mike.

I would have point blank refused the starter in the first place. I have
installed hundreds of starters over the years and have 'never' put the
wrong one in so the wiring had to be modified to make it fit. I prefer
to use the correct part for the application.

But that is just me....

If it is indeed the completely wrong starter like I think it might be,
then it needs a solenoid upstream from the battery connection like the
Ford variety uses. The battery cable goes to the starter relay and from
there a second battery cable goes down to the starter motor. That type
turns as soon as the main post sees power 'AND' has it's connection down
at the bottom instead of the top.....

I would use a set of booster cables at the auto shop on the next one to
see if it spins up with direct power too.... I just hold my foot on
them and touch the cables to the starter when they are on my battery.

Just my $0.02,

Mike

wrote:
> The last post is the story im sticking with too. I went home over
> lunch and took a good hard look to make sure wasn't missing wires or
> anything tucked away when I removed the old starter. There are only
> two wires going to the starter, one hot(red) that comes from the
> battery and one black that comes from the relay.
>
> There isn't any other electrical devices turned on when the ingnition
> switch is turned off. And all electrical systems work when the switch
> is turned on, so I agree in that I don't think its the electrical
> switch.
>
> I did take the black wire off the starter and reconnected the batter
> and the starter as Tom described started again. I was unware if this
> ment the starter was bad, but from what Tom is saying sounds like the
> solenoid is crap and needs replaced.
>
> The only reason I needed to splice extensions onto the wires from the
> battery and the relay is because on the stock starter the posts for the
> two wires come off the solenoid at around an 11 oclock position. With
> the mean green starter the posts come off at a 6 oclock position. Its
> just a different arrangement of solenoid position to the starter motor
> position, is my opinion anyway.
>
>
> So looks like its a defective from factory starter that needs to be
> replaced. Thanks for your guy's help!
> ....... Even you Mike.
>