New starter continually runs

I don't have a picture or a starter to work with, but sometimes you just
take out the bolts and rotate the solenoid or the nose cone so that things
point the way you want, then bolt it back together. There can be two or
sometimes three possible orientations, and the guys in the rebuild shops
don't really know which is the right one.

Earle

"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
g.com...
> I would have point blank refused the starter in the first place. I have
> installed hundreds of starters over the years and have 'never' put the
> wrong one in so the wiring had to be modified to make it fit. I prefer
> to use the correct part for the application.
>
> But that is just me....
>
> If it is indeed the completely wrong starter like I think it might be,
> then it needs a solenoid upstream from the battery connection like the
> Ford variety uses. The battery cable goes to the starter relay and from
> there a second battery cable goes down to the starter motor. That type
> turns as soon as the main post sees power 'AND' has it's connection down
> at the bottom instead of the top.....
>
> I would use a set of booster cables at the auto shop on the next one to
> see if it spins up with direct power too.... I just hold my foot on
> them and touch the cables to the starter when they are on my battery.
>
> Just my $0.02,
>
> Mike
>
> wrote:
> > The last post is the story im sticking with too. I went home over
> > lunch and took a good hard look to make sure wasn't missing wires or
> > anything tucked away when I removed the old starter. There are only
> > two wires going to the starter, one hot(red) that comes from the
> > battery and one black that comes from the relay.
> >
> > There isn't any other electrical devices turned on when the ingnition
> > switch is turned off. And all electrical systems work when the switch
> > is turned on, so I agree in that I don't think its the electrical
> > switch.
> >
> > I did take the black wire off the starter and reconnected the batter
> > and the starter as Tom described started again. I was unware if this
> > ment the starter was bad, but from what Tom is saying sounds like the
> > solenoid is crap and needs replaced.
> >
> > The only reason I needed to splice extensions onto the wires from the
> > battery and the relay is because on the stock starter the posts for the
> > two wires come off the solenoid at around an 11 oclock position. With
> > the mean green starter the posts come off at a 6 oclock position. Its
> > just a different arrangement of solenoid position to the starter motor
> > position, is my opinion anyway.
> >
> >
> > So looks like its a defective from factory starter that needs to be
> > replaced. Thanks for your guy's help!
> > ....... Even you Mike.
> >

Very good point!

Most have two bolts so it could be upside down for the application. It
would be a quick fix anyway.

Mike

Earle Horton wrote:
> I don't have a picture or a starter to work with, but sometimes you just
> take out the bolts and rotate the solenoid or the nose cone so that things
> point the way you want, then bolt it back together. There can be two or
> sometimes three possible orientations, and the guys in the rebuild shops
> don't really know which is the right one.
>
> Earle
>
> "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> g.com...
>> I would have point blank refused the starter in the first place. I have
>> installed hundreds of starters over the years and have 'never' put the
>> wrong one in so the wiring had to be modified to make it fit. I prefer
>> to use the correct part for the application.
>>
>> But that is just me....
>>
>> If it is indeed the completely wrong starter like I think it might be,
>> then it needs a solenoid upstream from the battery connection like the
>> Ford variety uses. The battery cable goes to the starter relay and from
>> there a second battery cable goes down to the starter motor. That type
>> turns as soon as the main post sees power 'AND' has it's connection down
>> at the bottom instead of the top.....
>>
>> I would use a set of booster cables at the auto shop on the next one to
>> see if it spins up with direct power too.... I just hold my foot on
>> them and touch the cables to the starter when they are on my battery.
>>
>> Just my $0.02,
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> wrote:
>>> The last post is the story im sticking with too. I went home over
>>> lunch and took a good hard look to make sure wasn't missing wires or
>>> anything tucked away when I removed the old starter. There are only
>>> two wires going to the starter, one hot(red) that comes from the
>>> battery and one black that comes from the relay.
>>>
>>> There isn't any other electrical devices turned on when the ingnition
>>> switch is turned off. And all electrical systems work when the switch
>>> is turned on, so I agree in that I don't think its the electrical
>>> switch.
>>>
>>> I did take the black wire off the starter and reconnected the batter
>>> and the starter as Tom described started again. I was unware if this
>>> ment the starter was bad, but from what Tom is saying sounds like the
>>> solenoid is crap and needs replaced.
>>>
>>> The only reason I needed to splice extensions onto the wires from the
>>> battery and the relay is because on the stock starter the posts for the
>>> two wires come off the solenoid at around an 11 oclock position. With
>>> the mean green starter the posts come off at a 6 oclock position. Its
>>> just a different arrangement of solenoid position to the starter motor
>>> position, is my opinion anyway.
>>>
>>>
>>> So looks like its a defective from factory starter that needs to be
>>> replaced. Thanks for your guy's help!
>>> ....... Even you Mike.
>>>
>
>

wrote:
> The last post is the story im sticking with too. I went home over
> lunch and took a good hard look to make sure wasn't missing wires or
> anything tucked away when I removed the old starter. There are only
> two wires going to the starter, one hot(red) that comes from the
> battery and one black that comes from the relay.
>


Make sure you post the final fix. Inquiring minds and all that...

Mike Romain wrote:
> Very good point!
>
> Most have two bolts so it could be upside down for the application. It
> would be a quick fix anyway.
>
> Mike
>


Quick fix for what? He's already extended his wiring so that's not an
issue anymore and he'd be hard pressed to swap these two wires at the
starter. The problem is the starter takes off as soon as the wires are
connected.

A motorcraft starter will have a solenoid on the fender well and
appropriate wires running to it, and one down to the starter. His
starter has two wires running to it hence it's not a motorcraft, and has
the solenoid mounted directly to it so again, not a motorcraft.

His system should have a starter relay energized by the ignition switch,
which in turn feeds power down to the solenoid on his starter. When
this starter mounted solenoid energizes it will connect the hot wire
that runs DIRECTLY from his battery to said solenoid, to the starter motor.


If the starter takes off with the brown (look real close Erik. I bet
it's not really black) solenoid wire disconnected then his STARTER
MOUNTED solenoid has to be defective.

Tom Greening wrote:
> Mike Romain wrote:
>> Very good point!
>>
>> Most have two bolts so it could be upside down for the application.
>> It would be a quick fix anyway.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>
>
> Quick fix for what?

Flipping the starter case would be a quick fix for the wrong part or if
the rebuilder just screwed up for the application like Earle mentions...
(if one was desperate and just 'had' to use that starter because it is
the last one in the state or something)

I am sorry, but I just can't imagine someone actually having to change
wiring around to put the 'wrong' starter into a Jeep and thinking that
all is right with things.....

I too would like to hear the results....

Mike

Ditto.
God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0
http://www.billhughes.com/

"Earle Horton" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> I can. Maybe you just don't have as much experience with human nature
> and some of the downright senseless stubbornness that I have seen. One
> wants to remember, too, that one function of these posts is that somebody
> in the future, about to make the same mistake, might read something that
> will change his mind. One can always hope.
>
> Earle
>
>

"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
g.com...
> Tom Greening wrote:
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> >> Very good point!
> >>
> >> Most have two bolts so it could be upside down for the application.
> >> It would be a quick fix anyway.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >
> >
> > Quick fix for what?
>
> Flipping the starter case would be a quick fix for the wrong part or
> if the rebuilder just screwed up for the application like Earle
> mentions...
> (if one was desperate and just 'had' to use that starter because it is
> the last one in the state or something)
>
> I am sorry, but I just can't imagine someone actually having to change
> wiring around to put the 'wrong' starter into a Jeep and thinking that
> all is right with things.....

I can. Maybe you just don't have as much experience with human nature
and some of the downright senseless stubbornness that I have seen. One
wants to remember, too, that one function of these posts is that somebody
in the future, about to make the same mistake, might read something that
will change his mind. One can always hope.

Earle

Mike Romain wrote:
> the last one in the state or something)
>
> I am sorry, but I just can't imagine someone actually having to change
> wiring around to put the 'wrong' starter into a Jeep and thinking that
> all is right with things.....
>
> I too would like to hear the results....
>
> Mike


You seem to be fixated on this "wrong" starter issue. Now who is to say
it's the wrong one? After all it's an aftermarket starter and while I'm
not all that incredibly familiar with mean green starters but have you
ever looked at one? It doesn't look very "factory" to say the least.
Extending the wiring might just be the way it is if you want one of
their starters. That doesn't make it the wrong one. Hell, just about
every after market ignition system in the world requires wiring
modifications of some sort. Does that make them the "wrong" system?

Tom Greening wrote:
> Mike Romain wrote:
>> the last one in the state or something)
>>
>> I am sorry, but I just can't imagine someone actually having to change
>> wiring around to put the 'wrong' starter into a Jeep and thinking that
>> all is right with things.....
>>
>> I too would like to hear the results....
>>
>> Mike
>
>
> You seem to be fixated on this "wrong" starter issue. Now who is to say
> it's the wrong one? After all it's an aftermarket starter and while I'm
> not all that incredibly familiar with mean green starters but have you
> ever looked at one? It doesn't look very "factory" to say the least.
> Extending the wiring might just be the way it is if you want one of
> their starters. That doesn't make it the wrong one. Hell, just about
> every after market ignition system in the world requires wiring
> modifications of some sort. Does that make them the "wrong" system?

I have been putting in starters since the 60's and have 'never' needed
to modify the wiring to do so. It makes no sense to me...

If I have to jury rig something to get me going, I am the best at making
things work, but to buy new and need to do it, well....

Mike

Lets try this again, I guess my first try at replying didnt get
posted.

Anyway, I think Mike, you have some notion that I am taking 4 wires
cramming them into one coupler and hooking it up to a post. Which is
def. not the case. The mean green starter is obviously aftermarket and
considerably more beefy than that of the stock starter. Perhaps you
have never had to modify the wires on your starters because you just
use OEM starters. The starter isn't any kind of slapped together to
work with my 2.5L engine. It mounts to the factory location with out
shims with any modification to the factory mount, and it even uses the
factory mounting bolts used to hold the original starter in place.

To hopefully clear some misconceptions up here, this is a link to some
pictures of the two starters

http://www.flickr.com/photos/flyer_fan11/369877432/

As you can see the mean green starter is larger and the mounting posts
are in a different location. On the old starter the two silver rings
you see is where the wires mounted. On the mean green stater look at
the bottom right of the starter you can see the same two posts, just in
different locations. The same wires go to the same posts on the new
starter, red to the larger post and the brown to the smaller post. I
just needed to lengthen the wires to accomidate the different position
of the posts...not cosolidate more wires into one with the thought that
the stater will miraculously work. Thats just idiocy.

The starter is now off the jeep disconnected and unbolted from
everything. I took the stater and connected it to the batter with
jumper cables. The negative on the large billet metal piece on the
front of the starter, and the positive on the hot post (red wire NOT
the smaller brown wire post) . The starter did not start up. So I'm
guessing the realy is bad?