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Cooling system bubbles, help!



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 26th 06, 01:12 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Cooling system bubbles, help!

I have a 2000 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT with a V6 engine.

About a month and a half ago, my radiator cracked at the top so I
changed it for a new one. As I did and started up my car to take it
home, I noticed that the water in the radiator reserve tank was being
sucked into the engine very quickly. The mechanic jumped immediately to
a head gasket issue. After checking that with my mechanic, he concluded
that the problem was that as well. So what I did is I got the whole
head gasket kit and replaced everything even doing the test on the
heads just to be sure everything was fine. Everything went fine and the
test were done without problems found on the heads. My mechanic changed
the gaskets and reassembled the engine. When we started up the car, we
drove it for a while. We both noticed that the problem remained the
same, a lot of bubbles were pouring into the reserve tank. Last night
again I took it out for a drive and when I shut down the engine back at
home I could hear the bubbles coming out real hard on the radiator
reserve tank. Also I noticed that happen when I accelerate the car.

If I remove the radiator cap and run the same test accelerating, the
coolant and water comes right back out like a fountain.
I replaced the thermostat as well and I am still having the same issue
L

I am at a point where I don't know what else to do. I changed the
head gasket and everything else that needed to be done and I am still
having the same issues. I haven't done a block test but I am not sure
if that can be the issue. The car has had multiple overheatings but
never to the top of the H. I always saw it before it reached that
point.

Please let me know if you can help me with that so maybe you can give
me some pointers on what I can do. I am really mad I spent around $1300
on a new radiator, head gasket kit, labour, etc and still I have the
same issue.



I really appreciate your help.

Thanks much in advance,


Teo

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  #2  
Old June 26th 06, 02:20 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Cooling system bubbles, help!


Well it sounds like you have a head gasket problem.
But before you worry too much I would make sure you don't have air
pockets in your coolant system and also your radiator cap holds
pressure to about 15 psi. With the engine cold I would start car and
keep radiator cap off and add coolant and antifreeze as much as
possible, if coolant normally rises as it gets hotter and when it
reaches top of opening and starts to spill out you can close radiator
cap, drive car for a few minutes and let cool down about 1 or 2 hours
open cap and repeat procedure.
Since a cap should be fairly cheap get a new one since one that
doesn't hold pressure will cause fluid to overflow into reservoir.
Get the carbon monoxide test to confirm a head gasket issue, could
also be a cracked block, head , or intake manifold as sometimes there
is coolant passages in the intake manifold. because you said at first
coolant was sucked into engine this suggests a leak inthe intake
manifold or intake part of the head gasket.

  #3  
Old June 26th 06, 02:46 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Cooling system bubbles, help!

Hi!
Yeah but I replaced the whole head gasket and also I checked both heads
and they didn't have any issues. That's why I am thinking it might be
something else other than the head gasket. I have a radiator tap of
0.9, should I get one that holds more pressure?
It might be the block since I didn't have that checked. What do you
think I should do first since I "supposedly" took care of the issue of
the head gasket, unless my mechanic messed up the work which is
unlikely but hey, everything happens.
Now there is no sucking of coolant, it just throws hot bubbles into the
radiator reservour consuming all the water eventually.

Let me know what you think.

Regards,
Teo

wrote:
> Well it sounds like you have a head gasket problem.
> But before you worry too much I would make sure you don't have air
> pockets in your coolant system and also your radiator cap holds
> pressure to about 15 psi. With the engine cold I would start car and
> keep radiator cap off and add coolant and antifreeze as much as
> possible, if coolant normally rises as it gets hotter and when it
> reaches top of opening and starts to spill out you can close radiator
> cap, drive car for a few minutes and let cool down about 1 or 2 hours
> open cap and repeat procedure.
> Since a cap should be fairly cheap get a new one since one that
> doesn't hold pressure will cause fluid to overflow into reservoir.
> Get the carbon monoxide test to confirm a head gasket issue, could
> also be a cracked block, head , or intake manifold as sometimes there
> is coolant passages in the intake manifold. because you said at first
> coolant was sucked into engine this suggests a leak inthe intake
> manifold or intake part of the head gasket.


  #4  
Old June 26th 06, 03:03 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Posts: n/a
Default Cooling system bubbles, help!

First off, did your mechanic presssure test the cooling system? Did it
hold pressure?
Most of the time, if you have a blown gasket from the waterjacket to
the cyl. you will have steam coming out of the exhuast pipe. I've taken
out the sparkplugs and looked for the one thats pumping water out the
hole while someone cranked over the engine. You may want to put rags
over the holes so incase water shoots out. Keeps from making a mess on
you and the car! When the gasket is blown to the oil passages, you'll
have what looks like chocolate milk on your dipstick. It sounds to me,
and take this with a grain of salt, like your waterpump is turning in
the wrong direction and pushing water up from the bottom of the
radiator. I have seen this on a car with a supentine belt and was put
back on wrong. If you didn't take yours off when you replace your
radiator forget what I said!! I would first take out the plugs and have
someone turn over the engine and see if you have water coming out of
any of the Cyl If there is no water, then put pressure on the cooling
system with a tester and see if water comes out of the Cyl. then. If
the cooling system holds pressure then you don't have a leak anywhere.
Thats all I got! HTH!!!

Rick


Metalaid wrote:
> I have a 2000 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT with a V6 engine.
>
> About a month and a half ago, my radiator cracked at the top so I
> changed it for a new one. As I did and started up my car to take it
> home, I noticed that the water in the radiator reserve tank was being
> sucked into the engine very quickly. The mechanic jumped immediately to
> a head gasket issue. After checking that with my mechanic, he concluded
> that the problem was that as well. So what I did is I got the whole
> head gasket kit and replaced everything even doing the test on the
> heads just to be sure everything was fine. Everything went fine and the
> test were done without problems found on the heads. My mechanic changed
> the gaskets and reassembled the engine. When we started up the car, we
> drove it for a while. We both noticed that the problem remained the
> same, a lot of bubbles were pouring into the reserve tank. Last night
> again I took it out for a drive and when I shut down the engine back at
> home I could hear the bubbles coming out real hard on the radiator
> reserve tank. Also I noticed that happen when I accelerate the car.
>
> If I remove the radiator cap and run the same test accelerating, the
> coolant and water comes right back out like a fountain.
> I replaced the thermostat as well and I am still having the same issue
> L
>
> I am at a point where I don't know what else to do. I changed the
> head gasket and everything else that needed to be done and I am still
> having the same issues. I haven't done a block test but I am not sure
> if that can be the issue. The car has had multiple overheatings but
> never to the top of the H. I always saw it before it reached that
> point.
>
> Please let me know if you can help me with that so maybe you can give
> me some pointers on what I can do. I am really mad I spent around $1300
> on a new radiator, head gasket kit, labour, etc and still I have the
> same issue.
>
>
>
> I really appreciate your help.
>
> Thanks much in advance,
>
>
> Teo


  #5  
Old June 26th 06, 03:07 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cooling system bubbles, help!

First off, did your mechanic presssure test the cooling system? Did it
hold pressure?
Most of the time, if you have a blown gasket from the waterjacket to
the cyl. you will have steam coming out of the exhuast pipe. I've taken
out the sparkplugs and looked for the one thats pumping water out the
hole while someone cranked over the engine. You may want to put rags
over the holes so incase water shoots out. Keeps from making a mess on
you and the car! When the gasket is blown to the oil passages, you'll
have what looks like chocolate milk on your dipstick. It sounds to me,
and take this with a grain of salt, like your waterpump is turning in
the wrong direction and pushing water up from the bottom of the
radiator. I have seen this on a car with a supentine belt and was put
back on wrong. If you didn't take yours off when you replace your
radiator forget what I said!! I would first take out the plugs and have
someone turn over the engine and see if you have water coming out of
any of the Cyl If there is no water, then put pressure on the cooling
system with a tester and see if water comes out of the Cyl. then. If
the cooling system holds pressure then you don't have a leak anywhere.
Thats all I got! HTH!!!

Rick


Metalaid wrote:
> I have a 2000 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT with a V6 engine.
>
> About a month and a half ago, my radiator cracked at the top so I
> changed it for a new one. As I did and started up my car to take it
> home, I noticed that the water in the radiator reserve tank was being
> sucked into the engine very quickly. The mechanic jumped immediately to
> a head gasket issue. After checking that with my mechanic, he concluded
> that the problem was that as well. So what I did is I got the whole
> head gasket kit and replaced everything even doing the test on the
> heads just to be sure everything was fine. Everything went fine and the
> test were done without problems found on the heads. My mechanic changed
> the gaskets and reassembled the engine. When we started up the car, we
> drove it for a while. We both noticed that the problem remained the
> same, a lot of bubbles were pouring into the reserve tank. Last night
> again I took it out for a drive and when I shut down the engine back at
> home I could hear the bubbles coming out real hard on the radiator
> reserve tank. Also I noticed that happen when I accelerate the car.
>
> If I remove the radiator cap and run the same test accelerating, the
> coolant and water comes right back out like a fountain.
> I replaced the thermostat as well and I am still having the same issue
> L
>
> I am at a point where I don't know what else to do. I changed the
> head gasket and everything else that needed to be done and I am still
> having the same issues. I haven't done a block test but I am not sure
> if that can be the issue. The car has had multiple overheatings but
> never to the top of the H. I always saw it before it reached that
> point.
>
> Please let me know if you can help me with that so maybe you can give
> me some pointers on what I can do. I am really mad I spent around $1300
> on a new radiator, head gasket kit, labour, etc and still I have the
> same issue.
>
>
>
> I really appreciate your help.
>
> Thanks much in advance,
>
>
> Teo


  #6  
Old June 26th 06, 03:40 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cooling system bubbles, help!

Metalaid wrote:
> the gaskets and reassembled the engine. When we started up the car, we
> drove it for a while. We both noticed that the problem remained the
> same, a lot of bubbles were pouring into the reserve tank.


Nothing is supposed to go into the reserve tank unless the pressure
exceeds a certain limit, which is around 16 psi. What will go into the
reserve tank will be vapor, which condenses to liquid. Inside your
cooling system, the boiling point of the coolant is raised by the
pressure. Even if what escapes from that system is liquid, when it
encounters the low pressure outside of the cooling system, it will
vaporize.

> Last night again I took it out for a drive and when I shut down the engine back at
> home I could hear the bubbles coming out real hard on the radiator
> reserve tank. Also I noticed that happen when I accelerate the car.


That sounds wrong. When you turn off the engine, it begins to cool. A
vacuum will develop in the cooling system which will suck coolant back
/from/ the reserve tank into the cooling system.

So there is a valve at work which opens under vacuum in one direction,
and under excessive pressure in the other direction.

Are you sure the bubbles are coming /out/ when the car is cooling down?

> If I remove the radiator cap and run the same test accelerating, the
> coolant and water comes right back out like a fountain.


What exactly are you doing? Driving with the radiator cap off and then
replacing it right after you stop? I can see you heating up the engine
that way and then causing enough pressure by replacing the cap that it
blows the valve. Don't do that any more.

> I haven't done a block test but I am not sure
> if that can be the issue. The car has had multiple overheatings but
> never to the top of the H.


This is probably because coolant is escaping from the system because it
isn't adequately pressurized.

It could be that the valve in the radiator cap is opening at too low a
pressure, because it's defective. Replace the thing; it's cheap
compared to all the other stuff you have done.

  #7  
Old June 26th 06, 03:51 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Posts: n/a
Default Cooling system bubbles, help!


Stick a fork in it, it's done. The cooling jacket is compromised,
somewhere that it's exposed to combustion and compression, most
commonly cracked between two valves in the head...

You said you checked it. Checked it how? Visually? (worthless)...Dye
check (better)?... Magnaflux...?


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  #8  
Old June 26th 06, 04:01 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Cooling system bubbles, help!

Metalaid wrote:
> Hi!
> Yeah but I replaced the whole head gasket and also I checked both heads
> and they didn't have any issues. That's why I am thinking it might be
> something else other than the head gasket. I have a radiator tap of
> 0.9, should I get one that holds more pressure?


That 0.9 means 0.9 bar, right? That translates to about 13 PSI. Maybe
that's right for your car, no idea. For that, you'd have to see its
repair manual! The typical figure is about 15 PSI.

edokamoto's point (and mine, in the other posting) is that that cap
might be faulty so that in fact it does not hold 0.9 bar.

If your cap does not hold the right pressure, you could waste a lot of
time and money trying to find and fix more complicated problems.

> It might be the block since I didn't have that checked. What do you
> think I should do first since I "supposedly" took care of the issue of
> the head gasket, unless my mechanic messed up the work which is
> unlikely but hey, everything happens.
> Now there is no sucking of coolant, it just throws hot bubbles into the
> radiator reservour consuming all the water eventually.


I.e. hot vapor is escaping from the cooling system, and into the
atmosphere.

You know, from what you are describing I would suspect that cap.
Because if you had a cracked block, etc, then the pressure would escape
/that/ way and not through your radiator cap. You'd never see anything
frothing through the reservoir. If the cap nicely holds its rated
pressure, and there is a crack in the engine, that boiling coolant is
going to go through that crack and ignore the radiator cap, see? The
path of least resistance.

Answer this: does vapor begin frothing out into the reservoir even if
the engine isn't anywhere close to overheating?

By the way, there is ultraviolet dye you can add to your coolant, which
glows under a UV lamp. That's a useful tool for looking for leaks, at
least external ones.

  #9  
Old June 26th 06, 04:35 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Posts: n/a
Default Cooling system bubbles, help!


Kaz Kylheku Wrote:
>
>
> You know, from what you are describing I would suspect that cap.
> Because if you had a cracked block, etc, then the pressure would escape
> /that/ way and not through your radiator cap. You'd never see anything
> frothing through the reservoir. If the cap nicely holds its rated
> pressure, and there is a crack in the engine, that boiling coolant is
> going to go through that crack and ignore the radiator cap, see? The
> path of least resistance.
>
>


Not neccessarily at all. I've seen many, MANY instances of a crack
causing cooling jacket pressurization and bubbling, because compression
(180 psi) + ignition far overpowers the small amount of pressure in the
cooling system. Plus with a hairline crack, it's more difficult for a
molecule of coolant to pass through than a molecule of air, there's a
huge difference in size, and the crack can be so fine that you'd never
see it, but compression will go right through it even though coolant
might be hard pressed to even seep through slowly...

Let the motor cool completely, and start it up with the cap off. If you
start ejecting coolant right away, there's no doubt there's a massive
combustion chamber to cooling jacket leak...


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  #10  
Old June 26th 06, 04:54 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Cooling system bubbles, help!

We took the heads out and sent it for rectification and checks.
Thorough checks, no visual checks, compression etc.
That's what I did and the tests didn't show anything unusual.

Regards,

Teo

jeffcoslacker wrote:
> Stick a fork in it, it's done. The cooling jacket is compromised,
> somewhere that it's exposed to combustion and compression, most
> commonly cracked between two valves in the head...
>
> You said you checked it. Checked it how? Visually? (worthless)...Dye
> check (better)?... Magnaflux...?
>
>
> --
> jeffcoslacker
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> jeffcoslacker's Profile: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...?userid=219638
> View this thread: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=583946
>
> http://www.automotiveforums.com


 




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