When is the US going to get "real" Land Rovers?

In article >,
/OMEGA says...
>
> |> As for the US military, it does use Land Rovers. IIRC US Marines and some
> |> other special forces use them.
> |
> |The Marines and others (Rangers?) ordered a small number of Defenders
> |after the first Gulf War, because the Defender turned out much more
> |suitable for the rapid desert raids than the Hummer. However IIRC the
> |Defenders were ordered without engines to be fitted with GMC 6.3L V8
> |diesels on arrival. I'm not sure how that would affect desert driving,
> |for the worse I would think it's a heavy engine.
>
> Question: how tough is the Defender in comparison to the Hummer?
> Will it take the abuse that US soldiers give?
>
> Frankly, in comparison to the cost of the Hummer, an armored LD
> would allow us to equip more troops with vehicles.
>

Half the abuse the Hummer is subjected to is due to it's own lumbering
weight.

> Nothing is going to stop an RPG-7 round this side of a tank.
> But a little armor might help protect from small arms fire and
> some land mines.

Not being the size of a battleship or as slow as one helps you not to
get shot in the first place.

> My concern is having a vehicle that does not cost us over
> $100,000 US.
>

Isn't that the cost of a chevy pickup with green paint in the US
military?

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So, the Defender might do as an affordable
combat vehicle. What is that Mercedes G-Wagon?
I hear that it is over $100,000!!!

And now the army is pushing some "off the shelf"
Chevy truck that is going to cost $100,000 per
unit!!! No wonder they have to make the military
smaller, there is no other way to equip the troops.

But then the Canadian army only has four tanks....



>>Question: how tough is the Defender in comparison to the Hummer?
>>Will it take the abuse that US soldiers give?
>
>
> The Hummer has a reputation of being rather fragile, among the British
> military. Certainly the H1 at least was regarded as a mild joke rather
> than a battle vehicle. I think the H2 was supposed to be better.
>
> The Land Rover isn't perfect, but it is IMO way better than a Hummer as
> far as rugged build and longevity goes. I just saw a reminder (on TV
> tonight) that for the ultimate in off-road there's the Bowler Wildcat.
> Loosely based on a Defender with Hummer type long travel suspension and
> a decent V8. It's capable of 0.-60 in 5s but can also travel all day
> across the desert at >70mph. At GBP 40,000 it's also still (just)
> cheaper than a Hummer.
>
>
>>Frankly, in comparison to the cost of the Hummer, an armored LD
>>would allow us to equip more troops with vehicles.
>
>
> The SAS tend to use very old Land Rovers, Series III with a windscreen
> (only), no roof. These are both v. cheap and v. rugged and they can
> carry a decent payload.
>
>
>>Nothing is going to stop an RPG-7 round this side of a tank.
>>But a little armor might help protect from small arms fire and
>>some land mines.
>
>
> Well... composite armour is a possibility as well as reactive armour. It
> may be possible to get an armoured vehicle that could stop an RPG and
> still weigh less than 7 tonnes.
>
>
>>My concern is having a vehicle that does not cost us over
>>$100,000 US.
>
>
> Cost of a hammer to the US Army isn't it? (Independence Day)
>

So, the Defender might do as an affordable
combat vehicle. What is that Mercedes G-Wagon?
I hear that it is over $100,000!!!

And now the army is pushing some "off the shelf"
Chevy truck that is going to cost $100,000 per
unit!!! No wonder they have to make the military
smaller, there is no other way to equip the troops.

But then the Canadian army only has four tanks....



>>Question: how tough is the Defender in comparison to the Hummer?
>>Will it take the abuse that US soldiers give?
>
>
> The Hummer has a reputation of being rather fragile, among the British
> military. Certainly the H1 at least was regarded as a mild joke rather
> than a battle vehicle. I think the H2 was supposed to be better.
>
> The Land Rover isn't perfect, but it is IMO way better than a Hummer as
> far as rugged build and longevity goes. I just saw a reminder (on TV
> tonight) that for the ultimate in off-road there's the Bowler Wildcat.
> Loosely based on a Defender with Hummer type long travel suspension and
> a decent V8. It's capable of 0.-60 in 5s but can also travel all day
> across the desert at >70mph. At GBP 40,000 it's also still (just)
> cheaper than a Hummer.
>
>
>>Frankly, in comparison to the cost of the Hummer, an armored LD
>>would allow us to equip more troops with vehicles.
>
>
> The SAS tend to use very old Land Rovers, Series III with a windscreen
> (only), no roof. These are both v. cheap and v. rugged and they can
> carry a decent payload.
>
>
>>Nothing is going to stop an RPG-7 round this side of a tank.
>>But a little armor might help protect from small arms fire and
>>some land mines.
>
>
> Well... composite armour is a possibility as well as reactive armour. It
> may be possible to get an armoured vehicle that could stop an RPG and
> still weigh less than 7 tonnes.
>
>
>>My concern is having a vehicle that does not cost us over
>>$100,000 US.
>
>
> Cost of a hammer to the US Army isn't it? (Independence Day)
>

Steve Firth wrote:
> R. David Steele /OMEGA> wrote:
>
>
>>when I tell the local cops about how British bobbies drive the
>>Jag XJ8, they are ready to swap their Crown Vics in for the XJ8.
>
>
> There's one American cop car that is a poor copy of the older XJ40 - I
> think it's a Pontiac. Can't recall the name of it, but it has the same
> overall look of an XJ40 with the same square headlights.
>
>
>>Now there would be a sales tool! US folks do like to buy what
>>the coppers drive.
>
>
> Humm, very few UK coppers get to drive XJ8s. Nowadays they are mostly
> reserved for Whitehall (government) use. The standard "tool" for
> motorway work is the Volvo T5. Most local coppers use a Vauxhall Astra
> (GM) or a Peugeot (French but built in Coventry). I couldn't see any
> doughnut sucking American Cop fitting behind the steering wheel of the
> either of last two cars.
>
> One of the police stations I visit for my work has a fleet of Ford
> Explorers.
>

Mostly around here it is Crown Victoria but we are
seeing more Chevy Impalas as there has been a law
suit with Ford and Ford will not see to many cities
in my state.

And we have less over weight police these days. For one
thing, the average LEO has only 3 years experience (most
quit before they reach five years). Lots of young, athletic
guys with big egos.

Steve Firth wrote:
> R. David Steele /OMEGA> wrote:
>
>
>>when I tell the local cops about how British bobbies drive the
>>Jag XJ8, they are ready to swap their Crown Vics in for the XJ8.
>
>
> There's one American cop car that is a poor copy of the older XJ40 - I
> think it's a Pontiac. Can't recall the name of it, but it has the same
> overall look of an XJ40 with the same square headlights.
>
>
>>Now there would be a sales tool! US folks do like to buy what
>>the coppers drive.
>
>
> Humm, very few UK coppers get to drive XJ8s. Nowadays they are mostly
> reserved for Whitehall (government) use. The standard "tool" for
> motorway work is the Volvo T5. Most local coppers use a Vauxhall Astra
> (GM) or a Peugeot (French but built in Coventry). I couldn't see any
> doughnut sucking American Cop fitting behind the steering wheel of the
> either of last two cars.
>
> One of the police stations I visit for my work has a fleet of Ford
> Explorers.
>

Mostly around here it is Crown Victoria but we are
seeing more Chevy Impalas as there has been a law
suit with Ford and Ford will not see to many cities
in my state.

And we have less over weight police these days. For one
thing, the average LEO has only 3 years experience (most
quit before they reach five years). Lots of young, athletic
guys with big egos.

Steve Firth ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

> I think the H2 was supposed to be better.

I thought the H2 was a farcical joke restyle of a Chevy Suburb?

Steve Firth ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

> I think the H2 was supposed to be better.

I thought the H2 was a farcical joke restyle of a Chevy Suburb?

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:18:46 +0100, John Halliwell
> wrote:

>As to 'proper' LRs in the US, I presume you can still import pre-1969
>series ones?

Pre 1979 (25+ years old) vehicles can be imported as long as they meet
whatever the US standard was in the year they were built. Also, there
were a few NAS '93 D110's and '94, '96 and '97 D90's that were
imported (they had roll cages and V8's).
--
Charlie...

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:18:46 +0100, John Halliwell
> wrote:

>As to 'proper' LRs in the US, I presume you can still import pre-1969
>series ones?

Pre 1979 (25+ years old) vehicles can be imported as long as they meet
whatever the US standard was in the year they were built. Also, there
were a few NAS '93 D110's and '94, '96 and '97 D90's that were
imported (they had roll cages and V8's).
--
Charlie...

R. David Steele wrote:
> Why can't the US get Defender 90s, 110s and 130s?
>
> Why can't we have diesel powered Landies?
>
> And why doesn't the US military use the Defender as a basic, and
> cheaper, vehicle for the average troops?

The U.S. Marine anti-terrorist unit uses the Mercedes G series. Works very
well for them. Not the landrover, but still it's nice to see them use
something other than the hummer.