power steering problems

I recently had a new altenator put on my 1991 honda accord. My mechanic
said he tightened all the belts real good. And he added quite a bit of
honda power steering fluid after noticing it was low. On my way home I
noticed a whining noise every time I turned to the right or left. I
phoned my mech. the next day and he said he heard a slight noise when he
drove it and thought it was probably a seal honda has had problems with
that they have an additive for which will fix it. Later I drove it a
short distance and besides the whining noise it soon became hard to steer.
When I got home I shut off the car and popped the hood. I took off the
reservoir cap and saw fluid foaming towards the top. Also there was fluid
on top of the reservoir and all around below it. Later there was a large
oil spot on the driveway below where the reservoir is. I phone my mech.
again and he said he has only heard of this problem once before and wasn't
able to find a fix for it. He could only say to add more fluid since I had
lost so much. I did and every time I drive it, which has only been a few
at short distances, I get the same results. I've never had problems
before with the power steering on this car and I've owned it since 1996
when it only had 29,000 miles. Now it has 250,000 and the only front end
work is 2 new front axiles and a right side A-upper arm (ball joint).
Hope someone can Help!! Can't afford a new vehicle.

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A few possibilities:

1. Make sure he put in genuine Honda OEM PS fluid. In the
alternative, my 1991 Civic has run fine on the PS fluid sold
at Autozone and similar that specifically says for Hondas
(and only Hondas, IIRC) on the front. If he put in anything
else, damage may have been done to PS parts.

2. If the system was overfilled, the swishing that occurs
(by design, so to speak) while running the car may have
simply through some oil out of the system. Refill with
genuine OEM PS fluid, per your owner's manual or the online
Factory Service Manuals. Post if you don't have either.

3. Air might have been sucked into the system during the
overfilled-swishing condition. You'll want to purge air from
the system. It's something a DIYer can do. I have used the
directions for purging the air from the PS system at
http://timingbelt.soben.com/ (about 3/4s of the way down),
and they work great.

Report back with the outcome of these attempts.

Elle
Original and sole owner, 1991 Civic, 201k miles

"hondanot4sale" > wrote
>I recently had a new altenator put on my 1991 honda accord.
>My mechanic
> said he tightened all the belts real good. And he added
> quite a bit of
> honda power steering fluid after noticing it was low. On
> my way home I
> noticed a whining noise every time I turned to the right
> or left. I
> phoned my mech. the next day and he said he heard a slight
> noise when he
> drove it and thought it was probably a seal honda has had
> problems with
> that they have an additive for which will fix it. Later I
> drove it a
> short distance and besides the whining noise it soon
> became hard to steer.
> When I got home I shut off the car and popped the hood. I
> took off the
> reservoir cap and saw fluid foaming towards the top. Also
> there was fluid
> on top of the reservoir and all around below it. Later
> there was a large
> oil spot on the driveway below where the reservoir is. I
> phone my mech.
> again and he said he has only heard of this problem once
> before and wasn't
> able to find a fix for it. He could only say to add more
> fluid since I had
> lost so much. I did and every time I drive it, which has
> only been a few
> at short distances, I get the same results. I've never
> had problems
> before with the power steering on this car and I've owned
> it since 1996
> when it only had 29,000 miles. Now it has 250,000 and the
> only front end
> work is 2 new front axiles and a right side A-upper arm
> (ball joint).
> Hope someone can Help!! Can't afford a new vehicle.
>

hondanot4sale wrote:
> I recently had a new altenator put on my 1991 honda accord. My mechanic
> said he tightened all the belts real good. And he added quite a bit of
> honda power steering fluid after noticing it was low. On my way home I
> noticed a whining noise every time I turned to the right or left. I
> phoned my mech. the next day and he said he heard a slight noise when he
> drove it and thought it was probably a seal honda has had problems with
> that they have an additive for which will fix it.

red light - never *ever* use that stuff. and hondas hardly ever have
seals problems if the correct fluid has been used.

> Later I drove it a
> short distance and besides the whining noise it soon became hard to steer.
> When I got home I shut off the car and popped the hood. I took off the
> reservoir cap and saw fluid foaming towards the top. Also there was fluid
> on top of the reservoir and all around below it. Later there was a large
> oil spot on the driveway below where the reservoir is. I phone my mech.
> again and he said he has only heard of this problem once before and wasn't
> able to find a fix for it. He could only say to add more fluid since I had
> lost so much. I did and every time I drive it, which has only been a few
> at short distances, I get the same results. I've never had problems
> before with the power steering on this car and I've owned it since 1996
> when it only had 29,000 miles. Now it has 250,000 and the only front end
> work is 2 new front axiles and a right side A-upper arm (ball joint).
> Hope someone can Help!! Can't afford a new vehicle.
>


unfortunately, this doesn't sound good. honda power steering fluid is
an unique formulation and non-foaming. if this individual used seal
expander gunk, and then topped up your system [something that was
unlikely to be necessary if it wasn't already leaking and you'd have
noticed oil on your driveway before now if it was], you'll have funny
noises, stiffness, foaming, spillage, and unfortunately, the need to
replace all the seals on the power steering system.

i would get a second opinion on this situation. it doesn't sound like
this person knows what they're doing and messed your car up for you.
[maybe they need the extra money and thought you'd be a trusting
helpless victim?] move on and find an independent local honda
specialist and get references if you can. unfortunately, this looks
like you're looking at a new power steering rack and pump seals - $300
for a honda remanufactured rack - but this is cheap relative to a new car.

"Elle"
Thanks for the quick reply and info. To answer your questions; he used
only Honda OEM PS fluid and no he didn't overfill it. I've been going to
this mech. for at least six yrs. At times I went to someone else and
found out from him I didn't need the work done or he could do it for a lot
less. He works out of his garage but use to work at a Honda dealership and
was trained and certified. He also has won national competitions against
other Honda mechanics. He only works on Hondas. If he thinks there is
something I can do myself and save money he lets me know. Needless to say
I trust this mech. He also advised me to go online and tell my problem on
a forum like this. That said I know he is falliable and can still make
mistakes like any other mech. and maybe when he worked on it he accidently
damaged something. So if there is air in the system how else could it get
there if it wasn't from overfilling? And if there is air in the system
would that cause the steering to be difficult?

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jim beam,
Thanks for helping me out. I trust my mech. though I know he may have
accidently done something to cause the problem. No he didn't add any
expander gunk or anything else foriegn. He used the proper fluid and
didn't overfill it. I am curious about how a new power steering rack and
pump seals would resolve this? Thanks again.

--
Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/....makers.honda/
More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html

hondanot4sale wrote:
> jim beam,
> Thanks for helping me out. I trust my mech. though I know he may have
> accidently done something to cause the problem. No he didn't add any
> expander gunk or anything else foriegn. He used the proper fluid and
> didn't overfill it. I am curious about how a new power steering rack and
> pump seals would resolve this? Thanks again.
>


you mention additive "which will fix it". that's a problem - shouldn't
ever use one. if he used that, the seals will expand, and start to
bind, hence stiffer steering. but you'll also get that effect if the
fluid is foamed - again, something that won't happen with the correct
fluid and no additives.

as for over-fill, there's hot and cold fluid levels, and they're
substantially different. if he filled it to "hot" when it wasn't, it
will over-expand and spill. foaming will cause spillage too.

The question seems to be how the car lost the PS fluid. If
it did not get "swished out" from overfilling, then sure,
like your mechanic said, a PS seal might have failed. (BTW,
I have seen it swish out from overfilling. While operating,
the PS reservoir sees "violent action" from the fluid being
pumped. That's normal. Too much fluid, and the reservoir
overflows.)

One really should consider an important engineering rule
here. It is, "Believe your indications." The system lost PS
fluid, and in the vicinity of the PS belt. These are facts.
Three possible after effects of the PS fluid loss are (1)
unsat system performance (e.g. does not steer as before);
(2) noise due to air entry; (3) and a belt that has PS fluid
on it and so is now stretched or not tight or is slipping.

Air in the system compresses, but PS fluid does not. That's
why the steering response will be poor after air entry.

It seems too much of a coincidence for the PS system to have
suddenly developed a leak that had nothing to do with your
mechanic's recent work on the car. It's common sense that he
likely (though admittedly not definitely) did something to
cause this. He was working on the system a bit, after all,
when he tightened the belt and added "quite a lot" of PS
fluid.

If your car's PS system lost enough fluid, then the PS pump
will suck air into the system. You say he added "quite a
bit" of PS fluid. It's hard to guess, but that makes me
suspicious. Cars go a long time w/o needing any PS fluid.

I also suspect that he overtightened the belt and/or now the
belt is covered with PS fluid from the leak source. I'd be
inclined to

(1) replace the belt and have it properly tightened.
(2) properly fill the system, including doing (3) below
(3) purge the system of air


"hondanot4sale" > wrote
> "Elle"
> Thanks for the quick reply and info. To answer your
> questions; he used
> only Honda OEM PS fluid and no he didn't overfill it.
> I've been going to
> this mech. for at least six yrs. At times I went to
> someone else and
> found out from him I didn't need the work done or he could
> do it for a lot
> less. He works out of his garage but use to work at a
> Honda dealership and
> was trained and certified. He also has won national
> competitions against
> other Honda mechanics. He only works on Hondas. If he
> thinks there is
> something I can do myself and save money he lets me know.
> Needless to say
> I trust this mech. He also advised me to go online and
> tell my problem on
> a forum like this. That said I know he is falliable and
> can still make
> mistakes like any other mech. and maybe when he worked on
> it he accidently
> damaged something. So if there is air in the system how
> else could it get
> there if it wasn't from overfilling? And if there is air
> in the system
> would that cause the steering to be difficult?