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134a Refrigerant



 
 
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  #451  
Old June 30th 05, 06:58 AM
Stephen Cowell
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"Nathan W. Collier" > wrote in message =
...
> "Stephen Cowell" > wrote in message=20
> .. .
> > So deforestation's good? Jeeping on

> the Moon, better than in the forest?
>=20
> how about jeeping in yellowstone? the trails are there, the money is =

there.=20

I have no problem with it... the whole place will
likely become a giant volcano, so tear it up!

> how do you feel about off roading in general? stream crossings?


There's a way to do it right, and a way to do it wrong...
stay on the trail, leave only tireprints, take only pictures.
There are other, proper places for racing, doing donuts,=20
etc. Have a care for the other fellow. Treat it like it was
yours... and you want to come back.
__
Steve
..

Ads
  #452  
Old June 30th 05, 07:14 AM
Stephen Cowell
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"Nathan W. Collier" > wrote in message =
...
> "jeff" > wrote in message=20
> news:k2wwe.10046$zp6.7742@trnddc08...
>> Stephen Cowell wrote:


Jeff->Freon is a *compound*.
> >>>

Nate->WRONG! "freon" is a brand.

> > > Well, he's obviously got you there... since it's a brand,
> > > it *can't* be a compound... we all know that. Once
> > > you brand it, then the molecules behave differently!

=20
> > Of course. thermal breakdown ;-)
> > I got a paper cut from a xerox. I had to put a bandaid on it after =

wiping=20
> > it off with a kleenex.


> bottom line, dont look down your nose at any technician as if youre =

some=20
> body when you dont even know the basics. that you would use a brand =

name=20
> instead of the proper terminology tells me that youre nowhere being an =


> insider into the industry.


Perhaps giving his remarks the clarity of objectivity? Being
an 'insider' hasn't done much for your grasp of the applicable
science, Nate... he drew a picture of the molecule in ASCII,
I thought that was pretty impressive! Perhaps he'll give us
an explanation of partial pressures, or Boyle's Law next.
Do the Carnot Cycle!
__
Steve
..

  #453  
Old June 30th 05, 07:15 AM
Stephen Cowell
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"Nathan W. Collier" > wrote in message =
...
> "Peter Pontbriand" <TRIMsprocketATstormDOTcaTRIM> wrote in message=20
> ...
> > Well heck, that means I've been wasting all this money on shielding =

gas=20
> > for
> > the MIG welder when I needn't have!

>=20
> heh.....good point!


Exactly! The argon is in suspension... it has diffused
into the atmosphere, just like the CFCs.
__
Steve
..

  #454  
Old June 30th 05, 07:19 AM
Nathan W. Collier
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"Stephen Cowell" > wrote in message
...
> Exactly! The argon is in suspension... it has diffused
> into the atmosphere, just like the CFCs.


the CONCENTRATION isnt there.

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com


  #455  
Old June 30th 05, 07:20 AM
Nathan W. Collier
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"Stephen Cowell" > wrote in message
news
> There's a way to do it right, and a way to do it wrong...


fair enough.

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com


  #456  
Old June 30th 05, 07:24 AM
Stephen Cowell
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"Nathan W. Collier" > wrote in message =
...
> "Stephen Cowell" > wrote in message=20
> . ..
> > Just like the argon pool we're drowning in! Help!

>=20
> see http://dictionary.reference.com/sear...Dconcentration although =

i dont=20
> expect you to let fact stand in the way of your argument.


Argon is heavier than air, right? So it should
all fall out! There should be no argon in
the upper atmosphere, where we find
the Nitrogen Layer, the Helium Layer, etc...
oh, you say this doesn't happen? Why
not? CONCENTRATION, he says, like
it means anything. If Freon falls, then
argon falls. You can't measure a concentration
unless the gas is mixed... the atmosphere
is a mixed gas. We can go around again
if you like... everyone here loves it.
__
Steve
..

  #457  
Old June 30th 05, 07:34 AM
Nathan W. Collier
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"Stephen Cowell" > wrote in message
. ..
> There should be no argon in
> the upper atmosphere


so prove the presence and the source.

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com


  #458  
Old June 30th 05, 07:45 AM
Stephen Cowell
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"Nathan W. Collier" > wrote in message =
...
> "L.W. ("=DFill") Hughes III" > wrote in message=20
> ...
> > Yep, you bleeding heart liberals have only smoke and mirrors, =

but
> > never any proof.

>=20
> i have nothing to add......youre just so damn right with that =

statement i=20
> felt it worthy of repost.


It's a mini-Repub convention! How to prove
something to someone that doesn't want it
proven to them... that's the big question.
You can try cramming the knowlege into
their heads... but it just bounces off.
Their eye-holes just won't open up=20
enough to see... and their ear-holes
shut at the first sound of an academic
talking.

If wilful ignorance is a blessing, then
you both are angels. We're not talking
about global warming, where the jury
is still out... this is CFC's and ozone,
where the science is decades old and
has influenced billions of dollars worth
of decisions taken on the highest levels
by bipartisan international legislation.
That your brains refuse to accommodate
this fact, and the science involved, is
a telling indicator of where this nation
is headed. =20
__
Steve
..

  #459  
Old June 30th 05, 02:05 PM
jeff
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Posts: n/a
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I know someone who lives in suburbia has a difficult time understanding
the natural world, but from my perspective, environmentalism is not a
liberal/conservative pivot point. It is about conserving the environment
so that my children and grandchildren can hunt, fish, hike, camp and
perhaps through this, gain some measure of their place in the universe.
I grew up in western Pennsylvania at a time when strip mining was
destroying all the deer habitat and the acid run off from them destroyed
most of the trout streams. Indiscriminant use of DDT wiped out most of
the native large birds to the point where hunting turkey and duck were
not worth the effort. From the top of a hill it was easy to mark the
direction to Pittsburgh from the sooty gray plume. Now 35 years later,
due in large measure to laws such as the clean air act and clean water
act I see a marked change for the better. The deer herd has come back,
as have the fisheries. This morning I saw over a dozen turkeys in my
back yard and I have ducks living in my pond. For these reasons I have
no problem with some portion of my tax dollars going to fund the EPA.
Without them we would have one continuous Love Canal from coast to coast.

BTW, to answer your question in a manner that even the common layman can
understand: Wind is responsible for atmospheric mixing. Think about it
like a bottle of Italian salad dressing: In the cool quiet isolation of
your refrigerator it separates. The heavy chunky bits settle to the
bottom and the oil rises to the top. Shake it and it becomes a uniform
mixture. This act of shaking is akin to the normal atmospheric
turbulence called wind. Thermal kinetic energy imparts Brownian motion.

--
jeff





L.W.(ßill) Hughes III wrote:
> You still haven't made the connection between Chlorofluorocarbons
> and the ozone, like how does heavier than air rise to that height?
> Except by some bleeding heart liberal theory designed solely to suck
> government grant's tax payer money. Even the common layman can see it
> has no bases in fact! It is pure unadulterated bullsh*t! And you're a
> loser if can be lead by false statements!
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> jeff wrote:
>
>>Twist/Twist/Twist..... You sure like to grasp at straws don't you.
>>
>>The troposphere extends to between 5 and 9 miles up. Above that is the
>>stratosphere which extends to about 30 miles or so. FWIW, ozone forms at
>>about the mid point, say 20 miles up or so. My point was that tropical
>>cumulonimbus formations can easily extend upward of 8 to 9 miles, which
>>is reaching the stratosphere. Also, they routinely carry heavy
>>hailstones. If they can carry three pound ice balls, they are certainly
>>not going to have any problem with CFCs. In case you are counting, ice
>>has a specific gravity about 400 times that of air, and about 100 times
>>that of dichlordiflouromethane. Isn't it amazing how the wind can carry
>>ice, water, and all manner of debris and particulate matter, hundreds of
>>times denser than air, but freon is going to drop like a rock because
>>"it's heavier than air". It doesn't wash.
>>
>>--
>>jeff

  #460  
Old June 30th 05, 02:30 PM
Stephen Cowell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Nathan W. Collier" > wrote in message =
...
> "Stephen Cowell" > wrote in message=20
> . ..
> > There should be no argon in
> > the upper atmosphere

>=20
> so prove the presence and the source.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_atmosphere

<>=20
Heterosphere
Below an altitude of about 100 km, the Earth's atmosphere has a =
more-or-less uniform composition (apart from water vapor) as described =
above. However, above about 100 km, the Earth's atmosphere begins to =
have a composition which varies with altitude. This is essentially =
because, in the absence of mixing, the density of a gas falls off =
exponentially with increasing altitude, but at a rate which depends on =
the molecular mass. Thus higher mass constituents, such as oxygen and =
nitrogen, fall off more quickly than lighter constituents such as =
helium, molecular hydrogen, and atomic hydrogen. Thus there is a layer, =
called the heterosphere, in which the earth's atmosphere has varying =
composition. As the altitude increases, the atmosphere is dominated =
successively by helium, molecular hydrogen, and atomic hydrogen. The =
precise altitude of the heterosphere and the layers it contains varies =
significantly with temperature.[2]
</>

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...Dozone+layer&=
x=3D0&y=3D0

<>
Main Entry: ozone layer
Function: noun
: an atmospheric layer at heights of about 20 to 30 miles (32 to 48 =
kilometers) that is normally characterized by high ozone content which =
blocks most solar ultraviolet radiation from entry into the lower =
atmosphere=20
</>

I'm not going to expect you to believe this stuff...
you don't have a history of that. Here it is,
nonetheless.
__
Steve
..
 




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