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  #31  
Old February 1st 05, 08:20 PM
Matthew Russotto
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In article >,
Magnulus > wrote:
>
>"Matthew Russotto" > wrote in message
...
>> I used to get 40mpg in actual use in a Toyota Tercel. Gasoline
>> powered. 40mpg in a hybrid that isn't much bigger isn't what I call
>> progress.

>
> I looked up Toyota Tercel and depending on the year it got upper 20's to
>lower 30's for gas mileage. Were you driving on a highway?


Mixed driving, mostly highway.

> I got 40 miles per gallon with the Honda Civic Hybrid with city driving.


Hybrids get worse mileage on the highway.
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  #32  
Old February 1st 05, 08:34 PM
Matthew Russotto
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In article >,
Magnulus > wrote:
>
>"Matthew Russotto" > wrote in message
...
>> Because it doesn't work as well as what is used. Hydrogen? Where are
>> you going to store it? How is it going to be produced? Hybrids cost
>> more to build (lots more), get anemic performance, and there's some
>> question in my mind about whether the gain in mileage is actually due
>> to the hybrid technology as opposed to all the OTHER fuel-saving
>> technology put in the car.

>
> And what would that be? Low rolling resistance tires?


Sure. Also a lower drag coefficient (note it's a half-inch shorter,
among other differences). And simple lack of power -- 93hp compared to
127 hp.

>The Honda Civic
>Hybrid gets about 22 percent better mileage than the regular Civic.


Well, no. It claims 22 percent better mileage according to EPA tests
that happen to overestimate hybrid mileages. Actual difference, based
on your 40mpg figure, is probably more like half that, though it's
hard to tell again because there's no CVT non-hybrid Civic.
  #33  
Old February 2nd 05, 03:00 AM
Old Wolf
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Magnulus wrote:
> "Brent P" wrote:
> >
> > Because there isn't the market demand for these particular
> > types of cars and hyrid car technology is only good enough
> > to produce cars with a level of performance that is barely
> > acceptable for this class.

>
> Just how good do people need- how much horsepower?
> What's wrong with 0-60 in ten seconds, exactly?
>


So you're the annoying ****er who uses up the whole length of
a passing zone to pass another sloth at a speed differential
of 1MPH, leaving the 20 other cars behind you stuck until the
next passing zone.

  #34  
Old February 2nd 05, 03:03 AM
Old Wolf
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Magnulus wrote:
> "Brent P" wrote:
> >
> > Because there isn't the market demand for these particular
> > types of cars and hyrid car technology is only good enough
> > to produce cars with a level of performance that is barely
> > acceptable for this class.

>
> Just how good do people need- how much horsepower?
> What's wrong with 0-60 in ten seconds, exactly?
>


So you're the annoying ****er who uses up the whole length of
a passing zone to pass another sloth at a speed differential
of 1MPH, leaving the 20 other cars behind you stuck until the
next passing zone.

  #35  
Old February 2nd 05, 04:28 AM
Magnulus
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"Matthew Russotto" > wrote in message
...
> > I looked up Toyota Tercel and depending on the year it got upper 20's

to
> >lower 30's for gas mileage. Were you driving on a highway?

>
> Mixed driving, mostly highway.


What model year was the car? Was the mileage on one trip, or averaged?

>
> > I got 40 miles per gallon with the Honda Civic Hybrid with city

driving.
>
> Hybrids get worse mileage on the highway.


The Honda Civic hybrid gets about equal mileage, 48/47 (EPA numbers, which
are usually higher than reality). With a manual transmission, it gets 46/51
(better on the highway). If highway driving was all that was considered,
the Toyota Prius and Honda Civic hybrid would be about equal.


  #36  
Old February 2nd 05, 05:00 AM
Magnulus
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"Matthew Russotto" > wrote in message
...
> Sure. Also a lower drag coefficient (note it's a half-inch shorter,
> among other differences). And simple lack of power -- 93hp compared to
> 127 hp.


But the electric motor has more torque than a gas engine.

Some of the Honda Civics have faster acceleration, but 12 seconds is about
equal to many other smaller cars (Toyota Corolla is about equal to that).

> Well, no. It claims 22 percent better mileage according to EPA tests
> that happen to overestimate hybrid mileages. Actual difference, based
> on your 40mpg figure, is probably more like half that, though it's
> hard to tell again because there's no CVT non-hybrid Civic.


A CVT accouns for 7 percent of the difference. (and to correct something
I wrote earlier, this site http://www.carlist.com/autonews/2005_hybrids.html
lists the fuel improvement as 40 percent vs. the regular sedan).




  #37  
Old February 2nd 05, 08:32 AM
Magnulus
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"Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
...
> "My boyfriends 2001 prius just broke down after 245,000 miles. It is
> the battery pack and they want about $6000 to replace it."
>
> http://www.priusonline.com/viewtopic...842&highlight=


Sounds like gouging to me.

The contents of the battery pack are D-cell NiMH batteries. I believe
there's about 240 of them in the pack. That shouldn't cost more than 2,500
dollars, and that's a liberal estimate.

Also note the 245,00 miles. That's pretty excessive for a car that's 5-6
years old. That represents about 15-18 years of typical driving for a car.
Frankly, I am highly dubious of the whole story- that would have to be ALOT
of driving.

If this guy has really driven 250,000 miles in his Prius, he has probably
saved several thousands of dollars in the price of gasoline- I'm guessing
maybe 8,500, vs. driving a similar car.


  #38  
Old February 2nd 05, 04:51 PM
Brent P
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In article >, Magnulus wrote:
>
> "Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "My boyfriends 2001 prius just broke down after 245,000 miles. It is
>> the battery pack and they want about $6000 to replace it."
>>
>> http://www.priusonline.com/viewtopic...842&highlight=

>
> Sounds like gouging to me.


Seems typical of battery replacement costs for electrics and hybrids.

> If this guy has really driven 250,000 miles in his Prius, he has probably
> saved several thousands of dollars in the price of gasoline- I'm guessing
> maybe 8,500, vs. driving a similar car.


He may have just made it over the break even point for his initial
investment compared to an equal gasoline powered car. His savings and
then some are consumed by replacing the battery pack. Let's say the
gasoline car needed a new motor at this same point for a best case. It's
still no better than even.


  #39  
Old February 2nd 05, 04:52 PM
Brent P
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In article >, Magnulus wrote:

> A CVT accouns for 7 percent of the difference. (and to correct something
> I wrote earlier, this site http://www.carlist.com/autonews/2005_hybrids.html
> lists the fuel improvement as 40 percent vs. the regular sedan).


You compare the small hyrbid to a bigger gasoline powered car. Try apples
to apples to apples. Opps that's the honda comparison and it doesn't help
you.


  #40  
Old February 2nd 05, 05:02 PM
fbloogyudsr
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"Magnulus" > wrote
> If this guy has really driven 250,000 miles in his Prius, he has probably
> saved several thousands of dollars in the price of gasoline- I'm guessing
> maybe 8,500, vs. driving a similar car.


The problem is he didn't save "several" thousand. In fact, it *COST* him
money,
and it cost all of us energy used in the construction of the more
complicated
hybrid drive system.

Let's say he got 50mpg (that's probably excessively optimistic, since a
Prius doesn't get that much on the highway and that the only way he
could have wracked up that much mileage.) That means he bought
5,000 gallons of fuel. There are many cars out there that get 40mpg;
a diesel Jetta, in fact, gets almost 50. So, the Prius got about 25%
better than that, saving around 1250 gallons. At $1.80 a gallon the
Prius saved $2250. But a Prius cost much more than that to begin
with; twice as much?

False economy.

Floyd

 




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