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#221
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Auto Cos. & Health Insurance [was Honda "Drive by Wire" question...what if the power goes out?]
E Meyer wrote:
> > This all sounds right at face value, until you look at that new Nissan, or > Honda, or Toyota and note that they are all built in US plants using > 90% > US content by US workers. I don't think healthcare is the real issue. they dont have all the retirees... yet. and the workers make sub-UAW wages, which isnt necessarily a bad thing. if GM hadnt kept giving outrageous executive pay and bonuses, the UAW wouldnt have asked for (and gotten) all those wage increases. someone had to draw the line somewhere, and it might take bankruptcy court to settle the whole thing. |
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#222
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Auto Cos. & Health Insurance [was Honda "Drive by Wire" question... what if the power goes out?]
"SoCalMike" > wrote
> E Meyer wrote: > > > > This all sounds right at face value, until you look at that new Nissan, or > > Honda, or Toyota and note that they are all built in US plants using > 90% > > US content by US workers. I don't think healthcare is the real issue. > > they dont have all the retirees... yet. and the workers make sub-UAW > wages, which isnt necessarily a bad thing. > > if GM hadnt kept giving outrageous executive pay and bonuses, the UAW > wouldnt have asked for (and gotten) all those wage increases. someone > had to draw the line somewhere, and it might take bankruptcy court to > settle the whole thing. All good points about which I had been wondering as well. The Time magazine article also pointed out that GM (and I think Ford) too were selling their cars at relatively huge discounts the last few years. Whereas Honda and Toyota cars have been in such demand that they go for a premium. (Which I guess means consistently higher than invoice or far more over invoice than GM and Ford cars.) So the GM and Ford profit for each car sold tends to be lower. Sorta blows away my theory that Americans are jerks about buying small, fuel efficient cars, though. They do buy them. Elle Hoping to buy some Honda stock in the next year or so. Doggone Toyota stock has just about gone through the roof but still may be a good investment, if GM goes under. |
#223
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Auto Cos. & Health Insurance [was Honda "Drive by Wire" question...what if the power goes out?]
Elle wrote:
> Elle > Hoping to buy some Honda stock in the next year or so. > Doggone Toyota stock has just about gone through the roof > but still may be a good investment, if GM goes under. if youre looking to invest to actually MAKE some money, i think ford is undervalued. yes- theyre in the same boat as GM, but theyre smaller and easier to turn around. |
#224
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Auto Cos. & Health Insurance [was Honda "Drive by Wire" question... what if the power goes out?]
"SoCalMike" > wrote
> Elle wrote: > > Elle > > Hoping to buy some Honda stock in the next year or so. > > Doggone Toyota stock has just about gone through the roof > > but still may be a good investment, if GM goes under. > > if youre looking to invest to actually MAKE some money, i think ford is > undervalued. If you mean check it's P/E (particularly the expected, next year's P/E) and make sure it's low, sure, that's one so-called stock fundamental to check. Ford's P/E is low at the moment. But, as you may be aware, this is one of dozens of company fundamentals that an astute investor should check. I often go next to the earnings history. In fact, Ford's annual earnings were in negative territory in the last five years, and are otherwise erratic. If you're interested, see the chart in the lower right of http://quicktake.morningstar.com/Sto...t.asp?Country= USA&Symbol=F&stocktab=snapshot&pgid=qtqnnavsnapsho t for the earnings trend in the last five years. Type in HMC for Honda or TM for Toyota, and compare their earnings trends. Also, compare to a huge conglomerate like GE or the soda pop company Coca-cola KO. Then too simple realities like Ford bonds are now rated at the junk level make its stock an easy rejection. Not to be obnoxiously pedantic, but for the interested student, this means professional business analysts have gone over a company's fundamentals (prospects for making profit!) with a fine tooth comb and ruled the company in deep doo-doo, at significantly greater risk of going bankrupt compared to, say, a company like Honda these days. > yes- theyre in the same boat as GM, but theyre smaller and easier to > turn around. Both are too risky for my blood at this time. That took some hard experience in investing to realize--I did own some Ford stock a few years ago! Coulda timed it and come out ahead, but you know how that goes. Likewise, one could buy some Ford stock today, like you suggest, and try to time it. But it really could go under. It's even more likely today than a few years ago. It's for gamblers, or people that want to put a very small portion of their portfolio in risky stocks, in the hope it will go up and provide a little gain. But they can also sustain the loss of the company going under, and the stock becoming worthless. I also had some GMAC bonds (a subsidiary of GM) a few years ago. Pre-junk rating. They paid a nice interest rate, matured and all was swell. But today any GMAC bond available is rated junk. The yield is great, but they're high risk. Of course, I know reputable people who say there is a fair chance the government would bail out either GM or Ford and not let them go under. Point being to spare the drag on the economy all these folks out of work etc. would be, I suppose. But then that may be seen to unfairly stifle companies producing a good product, like Honda and Toyota. So we'll see. For me, I want stock in products I know people like and that are quality. Ford and GM once were. No more. Onto Honda and Toyota. Back to the fun, substantive stuff that makes us all go "Whish, vroom, putt-putt-putt-putt... " Elle (Gonna lay off poor Elliott, too.) |
#225
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Auto Cos. & Health Insurance [was Honda "Drive by Wire" question...what if the power goes out?]
E Meyer wrote:
> > This all sounds right at face value, until you look at that new Nissan, or > Honda, or Toyota and note that they are all built in US plants using > 90% > US content by US workers. I don't think healthcare is the real issue. > The transplant factories employee mostly younger workers and have almost no retirees on the books. Healthcare expenses, and healthcare insurance costs, go up exponentially as a person ages. John |
#226
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Auto Cos. & Health Insurance [was Honda "Drive by Wire" question...what if the power goes out?]
SoCalMike wrote:
> Elle wrote: > >> Elle >> Hoping to buy some Honda stock in the next year or so. >> Doggone Toyota stock has just about gone through the roof >> but still may be a good investment, if GM goes under. > > > if youre looking to invest to actually MAKE some money, i think ford is > undervalued. > > yes- theyre in the same boat as GM, but theyre smaller and easier to > turn around. Smaller is a highly relative term here. Ford is a massive company both in North America and globally. The first obvious action Ford needs to take is to stop putting money down the Jaguar sink-hole, but instead Ford just put another $2.1 billion into Jaguar. http://today.reuters.com/investing/f...R-UPDATE-2.XML John |
#227
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Auto Cos. & Health Insurance [was Honda "Drive by Wire" question...what if the power goes out?]
John Horner wrote:
> SoCalMike wrote: >> Elle wrote: >> >>> Elle >>> Hoping to buy some Honda stock in the next year or so. >>> Doggone Toyota stock has just about gone through the roof >>> but still may be a good investment, if GM goes under. >> >> >> if youre looking to invest to actually MAKE some money, i think ford >> is undervalued. >> >> yes- theyre in the same boat as GM, but theyre smaller and easier to >> turn around. > > > Smaller is a highly relative term here. Ford is a massive company both > in North America and globally. The first obvious action Ford needs to > take is to stop putting money down the Jaguar sink-hole, but instead > Ford just put another $2.1 billion into Jaguar. > > http://today.reuters.com/investing/f...R-UPDATE-2.XML > > dunno if jaguar is that much of a sinkhole. mebbe i should read the link, huh? before the ford buyout, jags were extremely pricey and had a completely lousy reputation. now, hell- anyone could afford one! taurus guts underneath, FWIW. i see a lot more of em on the road than i used to, also. and they also managed to keep jags looking like jags. and then theres GM/saab. ugh. rebadged crap from a once quirky company. even a rebadged subie, fer chrissakes. i still say ford can turn it all around way before GM. yes, therye massive, but not as huge as GM and with a bit less baggage and a bit better reputation. GM needs a LOT of help and should get rid of at *least* one US division entirely. id suggest losing the chevy truck line, badge em all GMC, and get rid of buick. |
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