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#21
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That's cool, wait until you see your Grandkids' Jeeps. You'll be
there before you know it. :-) God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O http://www.billhughes.com/ Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/matt_photos/IMG_2309.JPG > > Tow vehicle 02 Ford F250 V10. > > I was able to get 3 jeeps on this trailer! :-) |
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#22
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>
>RoyJ - Not sure I follow your logic. The CJ weighs about 4400 lbs. A >trailer would add at least 1000 lbs (probably closer to 2000,) so I'd >be way over my rated 4800lb towing capacity. Why would an overweight >trailer be any safer/more stable than an acceptably weighted CJ? I've flat towed my TJ literally thousands of miles: http://home.comcast.net/~1redcreek/jeep/Ready2Go.jpg And I wouldn't tow it with anything less than a Ford Expedition or GM equivalent. On twisty back roads you can really feel the jeep trying to push the rear end of the vehicle around. It works something like this: first you are driving in a straight line - - - everything is fine. Then you need to take a left hand curve, but the jeep still wants to go straight. So the tow vehicle starts moving left and the jeep fights you until it finally starts going left as well. And everything is fine. BUT, now the road straightens out, the jeep wants to keep turning left and fights you until it is going straight again as well. Repeat over, and over, and over. I absolutely would not tow my Jeep on snowy roads. I have towed it in the rain and it was a bit of a white knuckle affair. And this is with a tow vehicle rated for 7,000 lbs. Your combo is only 400 lbs less than the maximum of the tow vehicle. Add the weight of the passengers and their gear and you are at or over the max for your vehicle. Over in the RV group the general advice it to take 75% of what the manufacture says as the safe maximum. You haven't said what your tow vehicle is, but IMHO you are at the ragged edge of safety. Dean |
#23
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I assure you the weight of the CJ is 4400 lbs. I took it to a scale
and had it weighed. (Actually it was 4650 but I plan on taking off the hard doors for towing which should eliminate 250 lbs.) Among other things it has 36" boggers, a 360 engine, a full roll cage, Dana 60s front and rear, two layers of custom skid plates in addition to the stock skid plate, custom bumpers, winch, and a variety of other heavy stuff. The tow vehicle is a 2wd 2002 Dodge Durango. Not sure if this qualifies as the "Ford Expedit=ADion or GM equivalent" suggested by Dean or not. The jeep rear axle is indeed a full floating with unlockable hubs. If I understand what you all are saying, if I unlock all 4 hubs there will be no lubrication issues. Do I still need to stop every 200 miles and let the engine idle to splash lubrication up on the bearings? I'm a bit confused, because in one instance Jeff said I would need to leave the front hubs locked in to lubricate... but once it was clearly understood that I have full floating in the rear, the advice changed to leave all 4 hubs unlocked. I don't understand why the rear configuration would change the requirement to lock in the front hubs or not? (Please bear with me if I sound ignorant... I have had some lesser/stock jeeps and been offroad before but this is my first heavily modified rig. I bought it as is built by someone else and am still learning all the ins and outs... I only know enough to be dangerous but am trying to learn) A thought: Would a potential good solution be a tow dolly? This could get the CJ's front wheels up off the road and eliminate the steering problem, yet would only add a couple hundred pounds of weight instead of a thousand or more. Jeff Strickland wrote: > YOU TOLD US IN ANOTHER POST THAT YOUR CJ HAS FULL FLOATING REAR HUBS. This > is a critical bit of information AND IT CHANGES THE ENTIRE DISCUSSION. > > Full Floaters allow flat towing, indeed they are a primary reason people > even install them. Well, maybe not primary reason, but CERTAINLY this is an > added benefit. > > All you need do is unlock all four hubs, and you are ready to go. The tires > will be disconnected at the hub from the entire rest of the drive train, > COMPLETELY REMOVING the requirement to set the levers on the transmission > and transfer case to any specific position. With the hubs unlocked on the > rear axle, the drivetrain will remain at rest while you are towing your CJ. > > Not only do Full Floaters let you flat tow, but if you manage to break an > axle shaft, you can disconnect the affected tire and still drive your Jeep. > This is the primary reason why people install them. > > You bought a Bonus, you can flat tow without any worries. > > > > > > > > > wrote in message > oups.com... > >I just got a tow vehicle which is only rated to tow 4800 lbs.... so it > > can tow my CJ, but not the CJ + trailer. > > > > Is there anything special I need to know before flat towing? I'm > > guessing I should put the transfer case and transmission in neutral, > > and lock in the hubs. Anything else I should do? > > |
#24
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How cute, they're both red!!!
I'm not a fan of flat towing so I don't have much time on the road doing it. But your experience is exactly what I would expect, especially the comments on driving in the rain. Dean wrote: >>RoyJ - Not sure I follow your logic. The CJ weighs about 4400 lbs. A >>trailer would add at least 1000 lbs (probably closer to 2000,) so I'd >>be way over my rated 4800lb towing capacity. Why would an overweight >>trailer be any safer/more stable than an acceptably weighted CJ? > > > I've flat towed my TJ literally thousands of miles: > > http://home.comcast.net/~1redcreek/jeep/Ready2Go.jpg > > And I wouldn't tow it with anything less than a Ford Expedition or GM > equivalent. On twisty back roads you can really feel the jeep trying to push > the rear end of the vehicle around. It works something like this: first you are > driving in a straight line - - - everything is fine. Then you need to take a > left hand curve, but the jeep still wants to go straight. So the tow vehicle > starts moving left and the jeep fights you until it finally starts going left as > well. And everything is fine. BUT, now the road straightens out, the jeep > wants to keep turning left and fights you until it is going straight again as > well. Repeat over, and over, and over. > > I absolutely would not tow my Jeep on snowy roads. I have towed it in the rain > and it was a bit of a white knuckle affair. And this is with a tow vehicle > rated for 7,000 lbs. Your combo is only 400 lbs less than the maximum of the > tow vehicle. Add the weight of the passengers and their gear and you are at or > over the max for your vehicle. Over in the RV group the general advice it to > take 75% of what the manufacture says as the safe maximum. > > You haven't said what your tow vehicle is, but IMHO you are at the ragged edge > of safety. > > Dean |
#26
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On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:31:34 GMT, RoyJ > wrote:
>How cute, they're both red!!! Funny how that happens. Every time I go to the stealership I plan to buy another color, but the red ones start chanting buy me, buy ME, BUY ME! It downs out the other voices in my head and I have to buy a red one to make it stop. <lol> Dean Mr. Wallet is one notiable voice that gets shouted down. He'w always saying "you want to spend how much money on the red one?!" |
#27
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> wrote in message oups.com... I assure you the weight of the CJ is 4400 lbs. I took it to a scale and had it weighed. (Actually it was 4650 but I plan on taking off the hard doors for towing which should eliminate 250 lbs.) Among other things it has 36" boggers, a 360 engine, a full roll cage, Dana 60s front and rear, two layers of custom skid plates in addition to the stock skid plate, custom bumpers, winch, and a variety of other heavy stuff.>> Your hard doors are 125 lbs each? Where do you plan to store them while towing, in the back of the Durango? If so, you might as well leave them on the Jeep, since the Durango is carrying them either way. Those Boggers are going to get VERY squirrley as well. <<The tow vehicle is a 2wd 2002 Dodge Durango. Not sure if this qualifies as the "Ford Expedit*ion or GM equivalent" suggested by Dean or not.>> No, a Durango IIRC is an SUV equivalent of a Dakota pickup. The Expedition is based on a full-size Ford F150 pickup. You are going to attempt to tow a 4400 pound trailer witn no brakes and a tendency to steer itself with a mid-sized SUV. IMHO this is going to be dangerous, and you won't realize how dangerous until you have to make your first panic stop and you end up jackknifing into oncoming traffic. <<in the rear, the advice changed to leave all 4 hubs unlocked. I don't understand why the rear configuration would change the requirement to lock in the front hubs or not? (Please bear with me if I sound ignorant... I have had some lesser/stock jeeps and been offroad before but this is my first heavily modified rig. I bought it as is built by someone else and am still learning all the ins and outs... I only know enough to be dangerous but am trying to learn)>> I believe on your T case, the input shaft drives the oil pump...when flat-towing, the input shaft would not be spinning, so no oil would be getting to the rear output shaft bearing when the rear axle/driveshaft spins. If you can unlock the rear hubs, that eliminates the rear driveshaft spinning, so you won't need to stop. That said, you may not be able to stop, given that you really are overextending your tow vehicle's capabilities, especially in the braking department. <<A thought: Would a potential good solution be a tow dolly? This could get the CJ's front wheels up off the road and eliminate the steering problem, yet would only add a couple hundred pounds of weight instead of a thousand or more.>> The best solution, and you're not gonna like it, is to sell the Durango and go with a 3/4 ton truck and trailer with electric brakes. |
#28
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>The tow vehicle is a 2wd 2002 Dodge Durango. Not sure if this >qualifies as the "Ford Expedit*ion or GM equivalent" suggested by Dean >or not. That is more in the Jeep Grand Cherokee, Ford Explorer range. When I bought the Expedition one of the tasks it was to perform was as a tow vehicle for the TJ. I REALLY wanted a Grand Cherokee, but the 5,000 lbs tow limit was just too closed to the weight of my TJ for my personal comfort. You're doing the right thing by asking questions. The problem is that you're going to get all kinds of opinions. Over in the RV group there is a school of thought that says for safety you shouldn't tow anything bigger than a utility trailer with anything smaller than a semi truck. I don't subscribe to that school, but I do think that the car builders are pushed to give their vehicles the highest tow rating possible. And just cause they say it can tow X number of pounds doesn't mean its a good idea. And that is where the 75% rule of thumb comes in. >A thought: Would a potential good solution be a tow dolly? This could >get the CJ's front wheels up off the road and eliminate the steering >problem, yet would only add a couple hundred pounds of weight instead >of a thousand or more. Tow dollies are good for FWD cars that can't be towed 4 down for some reason, usually transmission issues. Getting a tow dolly designed for fwd cars to work with a CJ with 36" tires isn't going to be easy, if it is possible at all. You'll have issues with getting straps big enough to go over the tires and potentially issues with the width of the front axle being able to even fit on the dolly. And in the end you'll still be at the hairy edge of your tow rigs capacity. I think the best thing to do is look at how others with similar Jeeps get their rigs to the trail. And frankly, the majority I see with 35"+ tires either drive them or use trailers. Dean Hey, nobody said this was going to be cheap. Remember Jeep stands for Just Empty Every Pocket! |
#29
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"RoyJ" > wrote in message nk.net... > Actually, for turning while flat towing, the big issue is the front > steering geometry. It has to have enough caster so it will center well and > not wander, it can't have too much or it just won't turn. Add in some of > the usual off road Jeep issues like big tires, lousy alignment, wear and > tear on ball joints and the rest, and you have one that will not flat tow > well. > > The folks who flat tow all the time are the RV types. If you have a 17,000 > pound Winnebago, when you turn the Jeep will come along, even if it isn't > quite happy. > This is certainly true. I flat tow behind a 28' Class C, and if my Jeep wanted to go somewhere else, or complaine about where I was taking it, I would never know. |
#30
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I would have never believed it, I've actually lifted a rear corner
of my CJs off the ground, back in my heyday. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O http://www.billhughes.com/ wrote: > > I assure you the weight of the CJ is 4400 lbs. I took it to a scale > and had it weighed. (Actually it was 4650 but I plan on taking off the > hard doors for towing which should eliminate 250 lbs.) Among other > things it has 36" boggers, a 360 engine, a full roll cage, Dana 60s > front and rear, two layers of custom skid plates in addition to the > stock skid plate, custom bumpers, winch, and a variety of other heavy > stuff. > > The tow vehicle is a 2wd 2002 Dodge Durango. Not sure if this > qualifies as the "Ford Expedit*ion or GM equivalent" suggested by Dean > or not. > > The jeep rear axle is indeed a full floating with unlockable hubs. If > I understand what you all are saying, if I unlock all 4 hubs there > will be no lubrication issues. Do I still need to stop every 200 miles > and let the engine idle to splash lubrication up on the bearings? I'm > a bit confused, because in one instance Jeff said I would need to > leave the front hubs locked in to lubricate... but once it was clearly > understood that I have full floating in the rear, the advice changed > to leave all 4 hubs unlocked. I don't understand why the rear > configuration would change the requirement to lock in the front hubs or > not? (Please bear with me if I sound ignorant... I have had some > lesser/stock jeeps and been offroad before but this is my first heavily > modified rig. I bought it as is built by someone else and am still > learning all the ins and outs... I only know enough to be dangerous > but am trying to learn) > > A thought: Would a potential good solution be a tow dolly? This could > get the CJ's front wheels up off the road and eliminate the steering > problem, yet would only add a couple hundred pounds of weight instead > of a thousand or more. |
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