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Engine / Turbo configurations on a budget



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 7th 05, 06:48 PM
Weston Weems
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Default Engine / Turbo configurations on a budget

Hello gents... let me first start off by saying I am new to the vw
aircooled world, but no stranger to automotive performance in the least.


I've recently come across a 72 superbeetle, and am interested in
getting a decent amount of power out of it.

My question is this... whats the biggest jugs/pistons I can use on the
stock cases? I was told 1835 by one person and somone else was saying
1640 or something.

In addition to the bigger pistons/jugs/crank and cam, I was going to go
with something like a T04 turbo etc.

I was wondering if anyone could give any advice at all as far as trying
to not have to have the cases machined out (or buy new cases).

And if 1640 or 1835 are the correct sizes, you think I could hit a
reliable 130hp or so, given I had some nice high perf heads and cam?


Thank you guys for all the advice, I really appreciate the help in
advance, been kinda hard getting answers.

Weston

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  #2  
Old March 7th 05, 07:22 PM
Mac
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Weston Weems" > wrote in message
news:2005030709481215227%wweemsNOSPAM@gmailNOSPAMc om...
> Hello gents... let me first start off by saying I am new to the vw
> aircooled world, but no stranger to automotive performance in the least.
>
>
> I've recently come across a 72 superbeetle, and am interested in getting a
> decent amount of power out of it.
>
> My question is this... whats the biggest jugs/pistons I can use on the
> stock cases? I was told 1835 by one person and somone else was saying 1640
> or something.
>
> In addition to the bigger pistons/jugs/crank and cam, I was going to go
> with something like a T04 turbo etc.
>
> I was wondering if anyone could give any advice at all as far as trying to
> not have to have the cases machined out (or buy new cases).
>
> And if 1640 or 1835 are the correct sizes, you think I could hit a
> reliable 130hp or so, given I had some nice high perf heads and cam?
>
>
> Thank you guys for all the advice, I really appreciate the help in
> advance, been kinda hard getting answers.
>
> Weston



http://lowbugget.com/1600t.html
>



  #3  
Old March 7th 05, 07:26 PM
Jan Andersson
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Posts: n/a
Default

Weston Weems wrote:
>
> Hello gents... let me first start off by saying I am new to the vw
> aircooled world, but no stranger to automotive performance in the least.
>
> I've recently come across a 72 superbeetle, and am interested in
> getting a decent amount of power out of it.
>
> My question is this... whats the biggest jugs/pistons I can use on the
> stock cases? I was told 1835 by one person and somone else was saying
> 1640 or something.


Both were wrong.

The most common "max" cylinder diameter is 94mm. That would give you
1915cc of displacement with a stock stroke.

You *can* go bigger too, but it gets a little hairy after that, and
certainly not a "budget" solution.


Instead of making cylinder diameter bigger, you can increase stroke. You
can buy a long stroke crank from a variety of sources. The prices have
come down some during the past couple of years. The most common
alternatives (and displacement they would offer if used with the
abovementioned 94mm cylinder kit) a

74mm (2052cc, not worth it, small increase and same money buys more)
76mm (2110cc, still not quite worth it, same reasons as above)
78mm (2165cc, this is the first "long stroke" crank worth all teh
effort, and parts matching is easy with other stuff)
82mm (2276cc, this is a very good choice, "B" type 94mm pistons are
readily available for just this stroke, so building the engine is
easier)
84mm (2332cc, not bad, not bad.... quite common too, requires a lot of
case clearancing and most likely the camn needs to be notched too to
allow room for crank/rod to swing past it)
90mm (definitely not for a beginner, I've only heard of these and they
require a ton of clearancing. Better get an aftermarket case that has
more room for clearancing in the casting. "Budget solution" was thrown
out teh wiondow long before I wrote the size. lol.)


So choose your basic hardware, study the solutions and other people's
experiences (I would recommend a month or two of surfing at
www.shoptalkforums.com and in their forced induction and high
performance discussion forums for more info before you start)

-And slap a Turbo and an intercooler on a 84x94 You'll have hard time
finding anything out on the road able to keep up. Assuming you don't
blow your transmission, or lose traction.

There are numerous 300-400hp bugs out there on the road, daily drivers
or weekend warriors. And in a car that weighs half of any typical
"sportscar" out there. Power to weight ratio works in your favor here.




> In addition to the bigger pistons/jugs/crank and cam, I was going to go
> with something like a T04 turbo etc.


TO3 and it's countless variations have been very popular too. 03/04
hybrids as well.


> I was wondering if anyone could give any advice at all as far as trying
> to not have to have the cases machined out (or buy new cases).



if you don't want to open the case up for larger cylinders... well.. in
my opinion you should abandon the project altogether and save money
until you can do it right

But to answer that question, your largest technically possible cylinder
size is 88mm. With a stock 69mm stroke, that gives you 1679cc. And VERY
thin cylinder walls that WILL cause you trouble down the road, even
WITHOUT turbo. Add boost, and they crack open like a can of sardines.
:-D

A safer "big bore" size would be 87mm, bringing the displacement to a
whopping 1641 from the stock 1585cc.

Whether the marginal increase is of any use, is arguable. At least if
you bought these new, you'd get more power because the pistons, rings
and cylinders would be NEW and tight. So... staying reasonably safe and
reliable, your choices are limited to stock 85.5mm or 87mm big bore. If
you don't want to have the case opened up. (why that limitation anyway?
price? Then you can't afford to do much of anything, knowing how much
more there is to high perf engine building.. that's a miniscule cost in
the big picture)



> And if 1640 or 1835 are the correct sizes, you think I could hit a
> reliable 130hp or so, given I had some nice high perf heads and cam?


I think it might be doable. A normally aspirated 1600cc gets expensive
and difficult to build after something like 80hp, but I have built them
up to 130-140hp and know several that make 150hp. NOT CHEAP, and these
are all-out race engines
So from the size point of view, it's possible. The turbo would make it
produce 130 easier and at lower rpms.


> Thank you guys for all the advice, I really appreciate the help in
> advance, been kinda hard getting answers.


Go to shoptalkforums and use the search. WEEKS of reading to be found on
the subject.
Turbo engine building has not been covered too much here.

Jan
  #4  
Old March 7th 05, 07:28 PM
Jan Andersson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Mac
>
> "Weston Weems" > wrote in message
> news:2005030709481215227%wweemsNOSPAM@gmailNOSPAMc om...
> > Hello gents... let me first start off by saying I am new to the vw
> > aircooled world, but no stranger to automotive performance in the least.
> >
> >
> > I've recently come across a 72 superbeetle, and am interested in getting a
> > decent amount of power out of it.
> >
> > My question is this... whats the biggest jugs/pistons I can use on the
> > stock cases? I was told 1835 by one person and somone else was saying 1640
> > or something.
> >
> > In addition to the bigger pistons/jugs/crank and cam, I was going to go
> > with something like a T04 turbo etc.
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone could give any advice at all as far as trying to
> > not have to have the cases machined out (or buy new cases).
> >
> > And if 1640 or 1835 are the correct sizes, you think I could hit a
> > reliable 130hp or so, given I had some nice high perf heads and cam?
> >
> >
> > Thank you guys for all the advice, I really appreciate the help in
> > advance, been kinda hard getting answers.
> >
> > Weston

>
> http://lowbugget.com/1600t.html




Hear hear

Damn, how could I forget. Give lowbugget a call, they know just about
all there is to know about 1600 turbo.


Jan
 




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