The Professor Who Battled Toyota And Survived

On Mon, 07 Feb 2011 16:21:51 -0600, hls wrote:

>
> "Tegger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> bob urz > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> The Professor Who Battled Toyota And Survived
>>>
>>> older article, but interesting
>>>
>>> http://www.impomag.com/scripts/ShowP...&CommonCount=0
>>
>>
>>
>> David Gilbert's assertions were discredited long ago.
>>
>> <http://jalopnik.com/#!5488464/the-mechanics-of-abc-news-unintended-toyota-acceleration-hoax>
>>
>> Excerpt:
>> "Toyota Statement: As revealed in their testimony before Congress,
>> Professor Gilbert's Preliminary Report was commissioned by Sean Kane, a
>> paid advocate for trial lawyers involved in litigation against Toyota
>> and other automakers. Mr. Kane also appeared on the ABC News broadcast
>> in support of the claim that Professor Gilbert's demonstration revealed
>> a flaw in the electronic throttle control system that could lead to
>> "runaway" Toyota and Lexus vehicles. The relationship between Mr. Kane,
>> Professor Gilbert and the trial lawyers who support Mr. Kane's advocacy
>> was not revealed by ABC News during the newscast, nor was Toyota offered
>> an opportunity to view the demonstration or given time to respond."
>>
>> --
>> Tegger
>
> Of course, between scientists there are always differences of opinion, and
> a good bit of "one up"manship. And the trial lawyers are happy to have a
> boffin on their side who will either support their point of view or muddy
> the waters even more. There can be a great deal of similarity between a
> boffin and a buffoon.


<Snerk> You said "boffin"

"All boffins are a little crackers". from No Highway IN The Sky

On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 16:36:23 -0500, tnom wrote:

>
>>Flat out: There was, and is, absolutely nothing wrong with Toyota's
>>electronic throttle.
>
> Anybody that can make that statement shows an obvious bias and can't be
> trusted to make judgments.
>
> If you were a juror you would be disqualified. Flat out.


Except NASA and the government concur.

On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 23:15:02 -0600, Hachiroku ???? >
wrote:

>On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 16:36:23 -0500, tnom wrote:
>
>>
>>>Flat out: There was, and is, absolutely nothing wrong with Toyota's
>>>electronic throttle.
>>
>> Anybody that can make that statement shows an obvious bias and can't be
>> trusted to make judgments.
>>
>> If you were a juror you would be disqualified. Flat out.
>
>
>Except NASA and the government concur.

You mean the government that we trust? And the same NASA that
occasionally creates fireworks in the sky?

> wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 23:15:02 -0600, Hachiroku ???? >
> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 16:36:23 -0500, tnom wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>>Flat out: There was, and is, absolutely nothing wrong with Toyota's
>>>>electronic throttle.
>>>
>>> Anybody that can make that statement shows an obvious bias and can't be
>>> trusted to make judgments.
>>>
>>> If you were a juror you would be disqualified. Flat out.
>>
>>
>>Except NASA and the government concur.
>
> You mean the government that we trust? And the same NASA that
> occasionally creates fireworks in the sky?
>

And I suppose this Professor Woebegone Numbnuts is more dependable
than NASA and the NTSB?

You so badly want Toyota to be at fault??

On 2/8/2011 11:15 PM, Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 16:36:23 -0500, tnom wrote:
>
>>
>>> Flat out: There was, and is, absolutely nothing wrong with Toyota's
>>> electronic throttle.
>>
>> Anybody that can make that statement shows an obvious bias and can't be
>> trusted to make judgments.
>>
>> If you were a juror you would be disqualified. Flat out.
>
>
> Except NASA and the government concur.
>

Even NASA is NOT immune from unexpected events.
Look at Challenger. There "Experts" said that there was NO problem
launching the shuttle at the colder temperature they did.
Others where yelling chicken little the sky is falling
End result: loss of life and space craft.

What happened after that? Redesign of solid rocket booster joints
Thats what happens after an event. Design review and re evaluation.
then modify product as needed.

I will ask again, were Toyota's PCM's flashed with updated software
in the suspected cars after these events happened?

bob

Great point.
I'd bet a weeks pay that Toyota addressed this via reprogramming
during the recall.
Ben

> He demonstrated that a short in the wire from the foot pedal to the
> computer would make the computer think that the driver was trying to
> floor the accelerator. He also proved there as no mechanism in the
> system to detect this fault and the computer would leave no record of
> this event.

"ben91932" > wrote in message
...
> Great point.
> I'd bet a weeks pay that Toyota addressed this via reprogramming
> during the recall.
> Ben
>
>> He demonstrated that a short in the wire from the foot pedal to the
>> computer would make the computer think that the driver was trying to
>> floor the accelerator. He also proved there as no mechanism in the
>> system to detect this fault and the computer would leave no record of
>> this event.

When our Avalon was recalled to replace the accelerator pedal, I found that
the transmission did not shift properly after the work was accomplished.
I suspected that this was due to the battery having been disconnected and
the PCM got wiped. The dealership confirmed that mine was the second
case of this happening, and Toyota sent them the software to correct this.

Now, this car never gave any indication of runaway acceleration, nor of
a sticky accelerator pedal.

The software reinitiation of the PCM cured the shift problem and there
have been no recurring issues of any kind.

The above leads me to believe that there was no routine reflash on
these units, but I dont know why only two showed the transmission
corruption.

hls wrote:
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 23:15:02 -0600, Hachiroku ???? >
> > wrote:
> >
> >>On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 16:36:23 -0500, tnom wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>>Flat out: There was, and is, absolutely nothing wrong with Toyota's
> >>>>electronic throttle.
> >>>
> >>> Anybody that can make that statement shows an obvious bias and can't be
> >>> trusted to make judgments.
> >>>
> >>> If you were a juror you would be disqualified. Flat out.
> >>
> >>
> >>Except NASA and the government concur.
> >
> > You mean the government that we trust? And the same NASA that
> > occasionally creates fireworks in the sky?
> >
>
> And I suppose this Professor Woebegone Numbnuts is more dependable
> than NASA and the NTSB?


He is far more dependable than your misbegotten analysis.

I never heard any claim that he found the cause of any accident. He only
claimed he found a fault in the system that would cause runaway
acceleration if there was a certain short circuit. He never claimed he
had any evidence that such a short had actually occurred in any vehicle
on the road.

Toyota has never disputed that the fault the professor discovered
doesn't exist. Toyota's position is there is no evidence that this fault
caused any of the accidents. Toyota also took steps to change the design
to eliminate the fault.


>
> You so badly want Toyota to be at fault??

On 2011-02-07, bob urz > wrote:
> The Professor Who Battled Toyota And Survived
>
> older article, but interesting
>
> http://www.impomag.com/scripts/ShowP...&CommonCount=0

I remember this professor's demonstration. It was through-and-through
crap. First he used a typical consumer aftermarket OBD2 controller to
find fault codes one can buy from amazon.com. These will not return
manufacturer specific codes in a throttle by wire system. He would need
a dealership's code reading equipment to pull those fault codes out if
they did exist.

Second he did something to rewire the system to create the fault. If I
remember correctly he essentially created a condition that deliberately
mimiced the sensor output for full throttle.

He made a few other errors but I cannot remember them now. Those were
the two big ones.

Basically his great discovery was the equal to touching the positive
battery cable to the starter's lug and complaining the starter motor
turned without moving the ignition key from 'off'.

On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 23:15:02 -0600, Hachiroku ???? >
wrote:

>On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 16:36:23 -0500, tnom wrote:
>
>>
>>>Flat out: There was, and is, absolutely nothing wrong with Toyota's
>>>electronic throttle.
>>
>> Anybody that can make that statement shows an obvious bias and can't be
>> trusted to make judgments.
>>
>> If you were a juror you would be disqualified. Flat out.
>
>
>Except NASA and the government concur.

That's authoritative proof but not definitive.

Authoritative proof cleared O.J. Simpson also.