The Professor Who Battled Toyota And Survived

The Professor Who Battled Toyota And Survived

older article, but interesting

http://www.impomag.com/scripts/ShowP...&CommonCount=0

"bob urz" > wrote in message
...
> The Professor Who Battled Toyota And Survived
>
> older article, but interesting
>
> http://www.impomag.com/scripts/ShowP...&CommonCount=0

What would you have done if you ran Toyota? It seems to me that if you were
with Toyota and you thought this guy was using junk science to smear Toyota
you probably would have reacted in a similar manner.

It seems to me that the media often treats anything utter by someone
claiming to be a scientist as if it was a fact. In this case the guy may or
may not have had a valid point. I do know that if I had been with Toyota and
thought he was a wacko, I would have gone after him. Once the media promotes
junk science as fact, it is hard to undo the damage.

Ed

bob urz > wrote in :

> The Professor Who Battled Toyota And Survived
>
> older article, but interesting
>
> http://www.impomag.com/scripts/ShowP...&CommonCount=0



David Gilbert's assertions were discredited long ago.

<http://jalopnik.com/#!5488464/the-mechanics-of-abc-news-unintended-toyota-acceleration-hoax>

Excerpt:
"Toyota Statement: As revealed in their testimony before Congress,
Professor Gilbert's Preliminary Report was commissioned by
Sean Kane, a paid advocate for trial lawyers involved in litigation
against Toyota and other automakers. Mr. Kane also appeared on the
ABC News broadcast in support of the claim that Professor Gilbert's
demonstration revealed a flaw in the electronic throttle control
system that could lead to "runaway" Toyota and Lexus vehicles.
The relationship between Mr. Kane, Professor Gilbert and the
trial lawyers who support Mr. Kane's advocacy was not revealed
by ABC News during the newscast, nor was Toyota offered an
opportunity to view the demonstration or given time to respond."

--
Tegger

"Tegger" > wrote in message
...
> bob urz > wrote in :
>
>> The Professor Who Battled Toyota And Survived
>>
>> older article, but interesting
>>
>> http://www.impomag.com/scripts/ShowP...&CommonCount=0
>
>
>
> David Gilbert's assertions were discredited long ago.
>
> <http://jalopnik.com/#!5488464/the-mechanics-of-abc-news-unintended-toyota-acceleration-hoax>
>
> Excerpt:
> "Toyota Statement: As revealed in their testimony before Congress,
> Professor Gilbert's Preliminary Report was commissioned by
> Sean Kane, a paid advocate for trial lawyers involved in litigation
> against Toyota and other automakers. Mr. Kane also appeared on the
> ABC News broadcast in support of the claim that Professor Gilbert's
> demonstration revealed a flaw in the electronic throttle control
> system that could lead to "runaway" Toyota and Lexus vehicles.
> The relationship between Mr. Kane, Professor Gilbert and the
> trial lawyers who support Mr. Kane's advocacy was not revealed
> by ABC News during the newscast, nor was Toyota offered an
> opportunity to view the demonstration or given time to respond."
>
> --
> Tegger

Of course, between scientists there are always differences of opinion,
and a good bit of "one up"manship. And the trial lawyers are happy
to have a boffin on their side who will either support their point of view
or muddy the waters even more. There can be a great deal of similarity
between a boffin and a buffoon.

I wish that the protection for whistleblowers were even stronger than
it is. We are taught from youth not to "tattle" or "snitch", but when
something really devious is going on, I hope there are people with
the fortitude to go to authorities with the down and dirty.

In much of business nowadays, there may be little in the way of
personal ethics, and unethical people lead corporations into unethical
business practices.

I still have two Toyotas, by the way, and they are perhaps the best
cars I ever owned.

On 2/7/2011 4:21 PM, hls wrote:
>
> "Tegger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> bob urz > wrote in :
>>
>>> The Professor Who Battled Toyota And Survived
>>>
>>> older article, but interesting
>>>
>>> http://www.impomag.com/scripts/ShowP...&CommonCount=0
>>
>>
>>
>> David Gilbert's assertions were discredited long ago.
>>
>> <http://jalopnik.com/#!5488464/the-mechanics-of-abc-news-unintended-toyota-acceleration-hoax>
>>
>>
>> Excerpt:
>> "Toyota Statement: As revealed in their testimony before Congress,
>> Professor Gilbert's Preliminary Report was commissioned by
>> Sean Kane, a paid advocate for trial lawyers involved in litigation
>> against Toyota and other automakers. Mr. Kane also appeared on the
>> ABC News broadcast in support of the claim that Professor Gilbert's
>> demonstration revealed a flaw in the electronic throttle control
>> system that could lead to "runaway" Toyota and Lexus vehicles.
>> The relationship between Mr. Kane, Professor Gilbert and the
>> trial lawyers who support Mr. Kane's advocacy was not revealed
>> by ABC News during the newscast, nor was Toyota offered an
>> opportunity to view the demonstration or given time to respond."
>>
>> --
>> Tegger
>
> Of course, between scientists there are always differences of opinion,
> and a good bit of "one up"manship. And the trial lawyers are happy
> to have a boffin on their side who will either support their point of view
> or muddy the waters even more. There can be a great deal of similarity
> between a boffin and a buffoon.
>
> I wish that the protection for whistle blowers were even stronger than
> it is. We are taught from youth not to "tattle" or "snitch", but when
> something really devious is going on, I hope there are people with
> the fortitude to go to authorities with the down and dirty.
>
> In much of business nowadays, there may be little in the way of
> personal ethics, and unethical people lead corporations into unethical
> business practices.
>
> I still have two Toyota's, by the way, and they are perhaps the best
> cars I ever owned.

The best we can hope for in this country is free exchange of ideas and
opinion. And let the public make there own calls.

This professor had nothing to gain and everthing to lose by going
against the system. I think he thought it was his moral responisbility
to bring the infgormation out for further investigation.

Automakers for years have been lieing to the public. Non are immune.
I had a case a number of years back on my Ford Taurus. there was a
limited recall for broken sub-frame mounts. I called Ford and they said
it did not exist when i had the information from the internet that it
did. Eventually, they boned up to it. But not when i first called them.
Trying to cover up a problem only damages you more latter.

I don't think Toyota is any better or worse than anyone else. They have
just been on the radar more in recent history for these kind of issues

when fly by wire airplanes were first being developed they were not
perfect either.

bob

bob urz > wrote in
:


> This professor had nothing to gain and everthing to lose by going
> against the system.



Gilbert got PAID by the plaintiff's lawyers.

That's a lot to "gain", buddy.


--
Tegger

"Tegger" > wrote in message
...
> bob urz > wrote in
> :
>
>
>> This professor had nothing to gain and everthing to lose by going
>> against the system.
>
>
>
> Gilbert got PAID by the plaintiff's lawyers.
>
> That's a lot to "gain", buddy.

Actually, it isn't. The little you normally gain in a case like this will
come back to haunt you. You will be seen as a turncoat, a snitch,
a traitor, and your opportunities in the future will be prejudiced.

"hls" > wrote in
:

>
> "Tegger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> bob urz > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>
>>> This professor had nothing to gain and everthing to lose by going
>>> against the system.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gilbert got PAID by the plaintiff's lawyers.
>>
>> That's a lot to "gain", buddy.
>
> Actually, it isn't. The little you normally gain in a case like this
> will come back to haunt you. You will be seen as a turncoat, a
> snitch, a traitor, and your opportunities in the future will be
> prejudiced.
>
>
>



Flat out: There was, and is, absolutely nothing wrong with Toyota's
electronic throttle.

--
Tegger

On 2/7/2011 8:46 PM, Tegger wrote:
> > wrote in
> :
>
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> bob > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>
>>>> This professor had nothing to gain and everything to lose by going
>>>> against the system.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gilbert got PAID by the plaintiff's lawyers.
>>>
>>> That's a lot to "gain", buddy.
>>
>> Actually, it isn't. The little you normally gain in a case like this
>> will come back to haunt you. You will be seen as a turncoat, a
>> snitch, a traitor, and your opportunities in the future will be
>> prejudiced.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Flat out: There was, and is, absolutely nothing wrong with Toyota's
> electronic throttle.
>
Would you bet your life on that statement? I think not.
Does it work OK 99.9% of the time? probably. When ever your dealing
with a complex piece of computer code and hardware, there is NO way to
test for every possible scenario it can run across. Hardware, software,
EMI interference, anything is possible to go wrong

Look at airbus flight 445 that went down. Somehow, its redundant
computer system and sensors failed and killed all aboard. And you can
bet systems like these are tested to much more stringent standards that
an automotive control system.

as we get further into the computer controls all brain control, issues
like this will continue to happen. **** happens. Look at Intel, they
could lose up to 1 Billion dollars on faulty chip sets it had already
shipped to computer makers. Lucky, they found the problem before many
finished units were shipped and in consumer hands. Imagine if this was
an automotive part?

The best thing that could have happened in this whole issue is Toyota
behind the scenes is madly testing for the unexpected. even the WOZ said
he had an issue. i hope the whole issue was a learning experience for
Toyota on both damage control and quality control.

Tegger wrote:
>
> "hls" > wrote in
> :
>
> >
> > "Tegger" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> bob urz > wrote in
> >> :
> >>
> >>
> >>> This professor had nothing to gain and everthing to lose by going
> >>> against the system.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Gilbert got PAID by the plaintiff's lawyers.
> >>
> >> That's a lot to "gain", buddy.
> >
> > Actually, it isn't. The little you normally gain in a case like this
> > will come back to haunt you. You will be seen as a turncoat, a
> > snitch, a traitor, and your opportunities in the future will be
> > prejudiced.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Flat out: There was, and is, absolutely nothing wrong with Toyota's
> electronic throttle.
>



No actually the Professor rather conclusively proved there was a great
deal wrong with Toyota's system.

He demonstrated that a short in the wire from the foot pedal to the
computer would make the computer think that the driver was trying to
floor the accelerator. He also proved there as no mechanism in the
system to detect this fault and the computer would leave no record of
this event. He also demonstrated that even if the driver stomped on the
brake pedal, if there was a short in that wire the computer would
continue to behave as if the driver was asking for maximum acceleration.

That doesn't prove that those were the causes of any particular
accident, but it certainly indicates that there were design flaws in the
Toyota electronic accelerator. The fact that Toyota has taken steps to
remedy all of these flaws is additional evidence that they existed.