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Are you in favor of an SUV endorsement?



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 22nd 04, 06:56 PM
DonQuixote-v-Windmills
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wrote:
> That makes as much sense as the contention that we should all
> drive small cars and not be allowed to buy the vehicles that our
> lifestyle may require. How does one transport their wife, five
> kids and all their 'stuff' in a Focus? If you don't like SUV's
> don't buy one. Others obviously believe they need the room and
> versatility afford by SUV's and have the right to buy what they
> need or want. No matter what you choose to buy with your money
> it will still be smaller than a tractor trailer rig. Should we
> ban those as well


What "choices" are you talking about when most of the cars in the world
market are RESTRICTED in America? Go south of the border or Europe.
Check on all the small micro vans they got, Mercedes A Class, anything
on 4 wheels...

Face, you got a MONOPOLISTIC LION that wants to preserve the stupid
dinosaur in place.

Ads
  #22  
Old December 23rd 04, 01:53 AM
external usenet poster
 
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Get real, their are many small or even micro cars like the Echo
available in the US market, but buyers do not WANT to buy, or can
not use, those small unsafe vehicles.. There are large high
powered cars available in Europe and S.A. but average buyers are
buying small cars in bigger numbers because they can not afford
to pay the higher taxes on those vehicles and higher fuel costs
that are necessary to support their socialist economies. For the
most part the only people buying small car in the US are those
that can't afford to buy or operate larger vehicles. Average
Americans can buy the vehicles they want and that currently is
the larger safer vehicles. Ranting against SUV's and other large
vehicles is just wasting everyone's time and not going to change
anything, so get over it


mike hunt


DonQuixote-v-Windmills wrote:
>
> wrote:
> > That makes as much sense as the contention that we should all
> > drive small cars and not be allowed to buy the vehicles that our
> > lifestyle may require. How does one transport their wife, five
> > kids and all their 'stuff' in a Focus? If you don't like SUV's
> > don't buy one. Others obviously believe they need the room and
> > versatility afford by SUV's and have the right to buy what they
> > need or want. No matter what you choose to buy with your money
> > it will still be smaller than a tractor trailer rig. Should we
> > ban those as well

>
> What "choices" are you talking about when most of the cars in the world
> market are RESTRICTED in America? Go south of the border or Europe.
> Check on all the small micro vans they got, Mercedes A Class, anything
> on 4 wheels...
>
> Face, you got a MONOPOLISTIC LION that wants to preserve the stupid
> dinosaur in place.

  #23  
Old December 23rd 04, 01:53 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Get real, their are many small or even micro cars like the Echo
available in the US market, but buyers do not WANT to buy, or can
not use, those small unsafe vehicles.. There are large high
powered cars available in Europe and S.A. but average buyers are
buying small cars in bigger numbers because they can not afford
to pay the higher taxes on those vehicles and higher fuel costs
that are necessary to support their socialist economies. For the
most part the only people buying small car in the US are those
that can't afford to buy or operate larger vehicles. Average
Americans can buy the vehicles they want and that currently is
the larger safer vehicles. Ranting against SUV's and other large
vehicles is just wasting everyone's time and not going to change
anything, so get over it


mike hunt


DonQuixote-v-Windmills wrote:
>
> wrote:
> > That makes as much sense as the contention that we should all
> > drive small cars and not be allowed to buy the vehicles that our
> > lifestyle may require. How does one transport their wife, five
> > kids and all their 'stuff' in a Focus? If you don't like SUV's
> > don't buy one. Others obviously believe they need the room and
> > versatility afford by SUV's and have the right to buy what they
> > need or want. No matter what you choose to buy with your money
> > it will still be smaller than a tractor trailer rig. Should we
> > ban those as well

>
> What "choices" are you talking about when most of the cars in the world
> market are RESTRICTED in America? Go south of the border or Europe.
> Check on all the small micro vans they got, Mercedes A Class, anything
> on 4 wheels...
>
> Face, you got a MONOPOLISTIC LION that wants to preserve the stupid
> dinosaur in place.

  #26  
Old December 23rd 04, 06:18 AM
DonQuixote-v-Windmills
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
> So, don't semi's, busses and other large commercial vehicles

intimidate
> you in your little compact car?


No, they don't. They don't zigzag around me for one. They are
predictable. They are respectful. And they are necessary.

  #27  
Old December 23rd 04, 06:18 AM
DonQuixote-v-Windmills
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
> So, don't semi's, busses and other large commercial vehicles

intimidate
> you in your little compact car?


No, they don't. They don't zigzag around me for one. They are
predictable. They are respectful. And they are necessary.

  #28  
Old December 23rd 04, 07:18 AM
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

DonQuixote-v-Windmills wrote:
>
> wrote:
> > Get real, their are many small or even micro cars like the Echo
> > available in the US market, but buyers do not WANT to buy, or can
> > not use, those small unsafe vehicles.. There are large high
> > powered cars available in Europe and S.A. but average buyers are
> > buying small cars in bigger numbers because they can not afford
> > to pay the higher taxes on those vehicles and higher fuel costs
> > that are necessary to support their socialist economies. For the
> > most part the only people buying small car in the US are those
> > that can't afford to buy or operate larger vehicles. Average
> > Americans can buy the vehicles they want and that currently is
> > the larger safer vehicles. Ranting against SUV's and other large
> > vehicles is just wasting everyone's time and not going to change
> > anything, so get over it

>
> Yeah sure, that's why a smarter car such as the Ford Focus became the
> best selling car, and so the Mini and the Bug. Of course people are
> INTIMIDATED in them, but they still go for efficiency and good taste.


So, don't semi's, busses and other large commercial vehicles intimidate
you in your little compact car?

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the
means he uses to frighten you. -- Eric Hoffer
  #29  
Old December 23rd 04, 07:18 AM
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

DonQuixote-v-Windmills wrote:
>
> wrote:
> > Get real, their are many small or even micro cars like the Echo
> > available in the US market, but buyers do not WANT to buy, or can
> > not use, those small unsafe vehicles.. There are large high
> > powered cars available in Europe and S.A. but average buyers are
> > buying small cars in bigger numbers because they can not afford
> > to pay the higher taxes on those vehicles and higher fuel costs
> > that are necessary to support their socialist economies. For the
> > most part the only people buying small car in the US are those
> > that can't afford to buy or operate larger vehicles. Average
> > Americans can buy the vehicles they want and that currently is
> > the larger safer vehicles. Ranting against SUV's and other large
> > vehicles is just wasting everyone's time and not going to change
> > anything, so get over it

>
> Yeah sure, that's why a smarter car such as the Ford Focus became the
> best selling car, and so the Mini and the Bug. Of course people are
> INTIMIDATED in them, but they still go for efficiency and good taste.


So, don't semi's, busses and other large commercial vehicles intimidate
you in your little compact car?

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the
means he uses to frighten you. -- Eric Hoffer
  #30  
Old December 23rd 04, 07:20 AM
Dick Boyd
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

At face value it might seem that the driving skills are the same for an
SUV and a car. But they aren't.

The SUV brakes differently, especially if heavily loaded. SUVs and
pickups can be more heavily loaded than a car. Stopping distance at
heavier loads is longer. A car fully loaded with four passengers and a
trunk load, as long as it is within the weight distribution on the door
placard, stops in roughly the same distance as when it is empty. Even
though it surprises most drivers when they find it takes extra brake
pedal force when the car is loaded.

In addition to the extra brake force required when an SUV is loaded,
the tendency to transfer weight to the front tires is greater than the
nosedive tendency in a car. This frightens SUV drivers the first time
on hard braking with a full load. Most SUVs have only three channel
ABS. Even with heavier braking when loaded the stopping distance is
relatively greater when loaded than when empty.

That statement applies to SUVs which were built on a truck chassis. If
the SUV were built on a car chassis, the braking is more like a car.

When empty, on hard braking, the rear brakes provide less stopping
force to prevent them from locking up and skidding. Most of the SUVs
have the rear wheel speed sensor on the differential. Road friciton
below 0.4 with the rear wheel braking diminished by ABS can result in a
skid if the driver steers radically. Still no problem, he can steer.
But if he goes off the shoulder, he will overcorrect, steer across the
road, go off the other shoulder and roll over.

When the SUV is heavily loaded, the rear wheels have more weight. The
rear ABS is not as likely to modulate.

In lightly loaded heavy braking in an SUV, the brake pedal may pulse.
Most drivers never experience that. In heavy braking with a load, the
ABS will not pulse.

Depending on the load when the driver first uses heavy braking, they
carry that impression to the opposite situation. If they brake heavily
when the SUV is loaded, the brakes will not pulse. But if they brake as
severely when the SUV is empty, the brakes will pulse. This scares the
drivers and they begin to pump the brakes, defeating the rationale for
ABS. The driver may do this unknowingly in the heat of the moment.
Hence one need for on board recorders to determine how much braking
force was being applied.

The driver may report heavy braking when in fact they were lightly
braking.

Drivers are not advised of or exposed to the differences. They cannot
take adequate care because they don't know what adequate care is.

> I agree with your proposal in principle. Those without the driving

skill to
> safely drive and park an SUV should not be allowed to.



The skills here are the same as driving a car: if adequate care is
taken,
neither will get into trouble.

 




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