Bicyclists - Best way to punish drivers who endanger you

On 2005-02-23, Scott en Aztln > wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 23:27:23 -0600, Preston Crawford
> wrote:
>
>>> Of course, on USENET everyone is 10 feet tall and can kick Superman's
>>> ass, too. But even if you are telling the truth, you're obviously some
>>> wierd mutant who was born without sweat glands or something. Normal
>>> people smell bad after they sweat; if normal people were as odorless
>>> as you claim to be, gymnasiums would not need showers.
>>
>>You're just wrong. Clean people who sweat don't stink. That's a fact with
>>very few caveats. It's the bacteria that stinks. So if you're clean and
>>you sweat you should be fine. To say that gynasiums having gyms proves
>>sweat stinks is sterling logic. Does everyone who works out at a gym come
>>in clean?
>
> ROFL!!

Are you laughing at yourself?

> So gyms have showers because some of the people who come in aren't
> clean. By that "sterling" logic, EVERY public building would have
> showers - especially libraries, which seem to attract all kinds of
> unwashed homeless people, especially diring inclement weather.

You aren't too bright. We're talking about a gym, right? That was the
example originally used (not by me) to "prove" that sweat stinks,
regardless. And I simply pointed out that that isn't a valid example by
itself, because not everyone that walks into a gym, walks in clean. If you
walk in clean, workout, then yeah, you can get dressed and head out
without a shower most likely.

Last time I checked, though, gyms and libraries are entirely different
things. You don't work out at the library, do you?

>>Frank is no mutant. You just aren't too bright.
>
> Whatever you say, Mr. Spock.

That's a compliment, I suppose. Since Mr. Spock is intelligent and
logical. Whereas some of you in this thread....

Preston

In article >,
Preston Crawford > wrote:
>On 2005-02-23, Scott en Aztln > wrote:
>> On 22 Feb 2005 17:12:52 -0800, wrote:
>>
>>>Matthew Russotto wrote:
>>>> If you think you don't have a strong odor after
>>>> a reasonably long bike ride, you're kidding yourself.
>>>
>>>OK, silly me. I believed my wife, my daughter, my doctor and my
>>>friends at work instead of a guy on the interenet who's never been near
>>>me.
>>>
>>>My mistake.
>>
>> Of course, on USENET everyone is 10 feet tall and can kick Superman's
>> ass, too. But even if you are telling the truth, you're obviously some
>> wierd mutant who was born without sweat glands or something. Normal
>> people smell bad after they sweat; if normal people were as odorless
>> as you claim to be, gymnasiums would not need showers.
>
>You're just wrong. Clean people who sweat don't stink. That's a fact with
>very few caveats.

It's simply entirely false.

>It's the bacteria that stinks.

The bacteria cause the odors, yes. But the bacteria are ubiqtuous.
Even if you washed them all off (and you can't), you'd acquire new
ones from the environment immediately.

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 21:17:40 -0800, Scott en Aztlán
> wrote in message
>:

>Of course, on USENET everyone is 10 feet tall and can kick Superman's
>ass, too. But even if you are telling the truth, you're obviously some
>wierd mutant who was born without sweat glands or something. Normal
>people smell bad after they sweat; if normal people were as odorless
>as you claim to be, gymnasiums would not need showers.

Well now, I used to be a gym rat (1-2 hours per day, 5-7 days per
week) and I can say from long experience that gym work can easily
result in a sweat of the wring-out-the-shirt variety, whereas cycling
at a moderate pace definitely does not. If every ride is a race then
you will sweat more, if not, then you will sweat less. Which is how
come, as previously mentioned, in London you will find city gents
progressing in state on their Bromptons dressed in business suits.

Also, I find that wearing natural fibres next to the skin results in
much sweatiness and stinks to high heaven, while modern technical
fabrics are so efficient that even if you do sweat your skin stays dry
and you don't stink.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Preston Crawford wrote:
> On 2005-02-23, Scott en Aztln > wrote:
>
> >
> > Whatever you say, Mr. Spock.
>
> That's a compliment, I suppose. Since Mr. Spock is intelligent and
> logical.

To apply some logic:

What we've seen is the car enthusiasts claiming everybody stinks when
they sweat, while the bicycling enthusiasts (who _must_ have more
experience sweating) claim that normally clean people do not stink
after they sweat.

While not a certainty, it seems there's a strong probability that car
enthusiasts _do_ smell foul when _they_ sweat. And since that's their
own experience, they mistakenly imagine everybody else must smell as
bad as they do.

It's just a theory, but it seems to fit the facts as presented here!

Just for fun, I decided to really pay attention today to how many cars I
encounter on my commute, and how many may be delayed by my presence. The
ride is about 5.5 miles, just to the P/R.

On a bike, the route I take to the P/R is almost entirely either on side
streets or tertiary arterials. I would estimate that 5 miles of it is on
roads on which there is a speed limit of 25 mph. The remaining half mile is
has a speed limit of 30 mph. In a car, the route would be on major
arterials, and the speed limits would be 35 most of the way. The route by
car takes 10 minutes, and about twice that time by bike. The route is hilly.

Because the bike route is on such sparsely used roads, for the 5 miles on
the sections that have the 25 mph speed limit, I only encountered five cars
for those five miles in the morning. And by "encountered", I mean, I either
passed while they were at a stop sign, waiting for traffic to clear, or were
within sight while I crossed the street. I never was passed by a car during
this section. In the section where the speed limit is higher, there's both a
steep hill and a broad shoulder. While I work up the hill at a relatively
low speed (probably 7-10 mph), a few cars passed me, but with no delays
because I was on the broad shoulder. The final quarter mile has some greater
traffic congestion -- heavy enough that my speed on the bike, and the
ambient traffic speed were equivalent.

Total cars delayed in the AM commute: 0

The PM commute, a reverse of this, has heavier car traffic, of course,
because there's simply more traffic in general. Unlike my AM commute where I
scarcely saw any cars and no other bikes, I saw 5 other cyclists on the
ride, and many more cars. The section that I labor up in the morning that
has the higher speed limit is downhill for me for the return, and no cars
passed me, probably because it is easy to come down the hill at 30-35 mph
and the speed limit, as I said, is 30 mph. Three cars passed me on one of
the minor arterials where their speed was 25 and mine was 17. (I know
everyone's speed because there's one of those "Your speed is" radar signs
there.) The shoulder is limited. However, because there was no on-coming
traffic, the cars barely needed to slow to get around me. Making the final
ascent before I got home, I had four cars pass me as again I labored up a
hill. Since the lane is wide, they were able to pass without crossing the
center line and without endangering me.

Total cars delayed in the PM commute: 0

It seems like the concern about bikes delaying cars is a complete non issue.
Yes, it's a possibility, but just looking at my little personal study, it
would appear not to be significant. The cars all take major arterials, and
are only on these little side streets and tertiary arterials trying to get
from their houses to the major arterials and back. Meanwhile, as a cyclist,
a pleasant low-traffic tertiary arterial is the perfect road to use, and I'm
not going to be on the major roads in the way of all the cars.


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

In article .com>, wrote:
>
> Preston Crawford wrote:
>> On 2005-02-23, Scott en Aztln > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Whatever you say, Mr. Spock.
>>
>> That's a compliment, I suppose. Since Mr. Spock is intelligent and
>> logical.
>
> To apply some logic:
>
> What we've seen is the car enthusiasts claiming everybody stinks when
> they sweat, while the bicycling enthusiasts (who _must_ have more
> experience sweating) claim that normally clean people do not stink
> after they sweat.

I sweat. I don't know if I stink from it. (my sense of smell is poor) I am
not taking any chances, I clean up. Plus since I sweat most after I stop
riding, I find it very uncomfortable and cleaning up brings that under
control and returns my comfort level to normal. I don't sweat much, but I
can sweat considerably due to a change of state. (from hot to cold, or
from excerise to being still. I've even felt sick from the later and I
have to do a couple couple parking lot laps to be sure to avoid it)

> While not a certainty, it seems there's a strong probability that car
> enthusiasts _do_ smell foul when _they_ sweat. And since that's their
> own experience, they mistakenly imagine everybody else must smell as
> bad as they do.

You continue to fail to compute that the same person could be both.

In article >,
"Claire Petersky" > writes:

> It seems like the concern about bikes delaying cars is a complete non issue.

As is the related canard of cyclists suicidally blasting
through stop signals and wreaking havok by causing heavy
cross-traffic to swerve into each other.

> Yes, it's a possibility, but just looking at my little personal study, it
> would appear not to be significant. The cars all take major arterials, and
> are only on these little side streets and tertiary arterials trying to get
> from their houses to the major arterials and back.

I've heard a number of riders mention they consider the
main arterials to be safer, as the traffic flow is more
regimented, and sight lines are generally better. I
figure riding major or minor streets just takes somewhat
different approaches, but an equal application of care.

> Meanwhile, as a cyclist,
> a pleasant low-traffic tertiary arterial is the perfect road to use, and I'm
> not going to be on the major roads in the way of all the cars.

I find the lesser streets can be somewhat faster because
they don't have traffic lights every other intersection.

But I wonder - why, on those minor streets, do so many
drivers feel compelled to time their passes to coinside
with where 2 cars parked on opposite sides of the street
create a bottleneck, and there's so much clear space behind
and ahead of those 2 parked cars?


cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Matthew Russotto wrote:

> In article >,
> Stephen Harding > wrote:
>
>>I've always believed it's lack of social penalty in a car
>>that isn't there if you are on foot, e.g. cutting into a
>>ticket line for theater or sporting event. In a car, people
>>do it all the time!
>
> Roads aren't queues. It's not the lack of social penalty, it's a
> different rule set.

They most certainly can be queues!

My observations tend to indicate that it is precisely
when roads become queues that you really begin to see
rude, selfish behavior from motorists.

Everyone is happy when they're having a car commercial
driving experience (empty road, great scenery, twists
and turns under precise control).

It's in the "traffic queue" where you find the road
rage. And what prompts a lot of road rage incidents?
People driving like knuckleheads.

Perhaps you'd just define it as people using a "different
rule set"?


SMH

"Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 19:49:24 -0800, "Claire Petersky"
> > wrote:
>
> >Because the bike route is on such sparsely used roads, for the 5 miles on
> >the sections that have the 25 mph speed limit, I only encountered five
cars
> >for those five miles in the morning. And by "encountered", I mean, I
either
> >passed while they were at a stop sign, waiting for traffic to clear
>
> Hear that, folks? We've just had a pedalcyclist admit that he ran at
> least one stop sign.

Maybe my writing was unclear or perhaps your reading comprehension skill are
relatively limited. I will break it down for you: I am riding along the
arterial. I have no stop. The cross traffic from a side street has the stop.
It must wait for the arterial to clear before it may proceed.

In this particular instance, I was descending a hill at or likely somewhat
above the posted speed limit of 25 mph, so the cross traffic was delayed by
my sheer existence, but not by the fact that I was riding a bicycle.


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

Brent P wrote:
>
>
> > While not a certainty, it seems there's a strong probability that
car
> > enthusiasts _do_ smell foul when _they_ sweat. And since that's
their
> > own experience, they mistakenly imagine everybody else must smell
as
> > bad as they do.
>
> You continue to fail to compute that the same person could be both.

Hardly. I am both a cyclist and a motorist, and the same is true for
almost every cyclist I know.