A/C hisses, spurts steam

Early last fall, I was driving along - or rather, sitting still on the
highway waiting for traffic to move, on a hot, humid day with the air
conditioner running, when I suddenly heard this sputtering hiss and a puff
of white smoke or steam coming from under the hood. I looked at my
gauges, and the engine temperature was spiking - moving up very rapidly.

I immediately turned the A/C off, the heater on full, and started looking
for a place to pull over onto the shoulder. The temp immediately began
dropping as quickly as it had risen. So I drove it to the shop.

The temp had gone up so fast, and had come back down again, so fast, that
all I could figure was that the coolant had stopped circulating entirely,
then started again. So I wasn't at all surprised that the shop told me I
needed to replace my water pump and belts.

Turned out that that was the last hot spell of the year, and I never ran
my A/C again, after getting the car out of the shop, until this spring.

As it got warm again, I turned on the A/C again, and again, on occasion,
I've been getting the hiss and spurt of white smoke or steam. when it's
hot outside, when the engine has been running long enough to reach full
temperature, when the A/C is running, and when the car is stationary.

The difference between this spring and last fall is that the engine
temperature isn't moving at all - it's staying exactly where it should be.
So it appears that the water pump was the cause of the temperature spike,
and that the his and puff of smoke is something else that just happened to
happen at the same time.

Any ideas as to what it is? I hadn't connected it to the A/C, last year,
because I couldn't see how the A/C could have anything to do with engine
temperature - aside from being an additional load on the engine. But the
incidents this spring have happened only when the A/C was running and the
car wasn't moving.

I'm at a loss. Help would be appreciated.


--
Because Linux is not commercial--because it is, in fact, free, as well
as rather difficult to obtain, install, and operate--it does not have
to maintain any pretensions as to its reliability. Consequently, it is
much more reliable.
- Neal Stephenson

Could it be that the aux electric radiator fan isn't kicking on with the AC?
My last car had two fans. One runs normally with the thermostat, the other
whenever the AC is on. If the car was stationary and the AC was on, it
needed
BOTH fans to handle the heat. Especially if the car was just 'highway
driven'
and I came down to a stop and there was a lot of residual heat in the motor.

I'm not sure how my fans work in my current car, but I do know there are
two of them, and normally only one cycles on and off if I'm running the car
stationary in the driveway with the AC off. I suppose it might be a good
idea to try it with the AC on and see.

Another thing to look at is the radiator itself. I had an 85 Dodge that
started
overheating. Using the AC was out of the question. It go so that in April
when the seasons started to warm up it was fine on the highway, but when
I took an exit ramp the tem shot skyward as I slowed. I had to turn the
heat on full blast in the car.

There was a Goodyear shop half a block from where I worked. 4 trips there
and one $50 charge and it still was a mess. I ended up hitting a local
radiator shop and he took 30 seconds to find the problem. All the fins
were rotted away on the radiator. Still there, but nothing but rot. With
no leaks. A victim of New England road salt. The radiator just couldn't
blow off the required amount of heat unless there was a lot of air flow.



"Jeff Dege" > wrote in message
news
> Early last fall, I was driving along - or rather, sitting still on the
> highway waiting for traffic to move, on a hot, humid day with the air
> conditioner running, when I suddenly heard this sputtering hiss and a puff
> of white smoke or steam coming from under the hood. I looked at my
> gauges, and the engine temperature was spiking - moving up very rapidly.
>
> I immediately turned the A/C off, the heater on full, and started looking
> for a place to pull over onto the shoulder. The temp immediately began
> dropping as quickly as it had risen. So I drove it to the shop.
>
> The temp had gone up so fast, and had come back down again, so fast, that
> all I could figure was that the coolant had stopped circulating entirely,
> then started again. So I wasn't at all surprised that the shop told me I
> needed to replace my water pump and belts.
>
> Turned out that that was the last hot spell of the year, and I never ran
> my A/C again, after getting the car out of the shop, until this spring.
>
> As it got warm again, I turned on the A/C again, and again, on occasion,
> I've been getting the hiss and spurt of white smoke or steam. when it's
> hot outside, when the engine has been running long enough to reach full
> temperature, when the A/C is running, and when the car is stationary.
>
> The difference between this spring and last fall is that the engine
> temperature isn't moving at all - it's staying exactly where it should be.
> So it appears that the water pump was the cause of the temperature spike,
> and that the his and puff of smoke is something else that just happened to
> happen at the same time.
>
> Any ideas as to what it is? I hadn't connected it to the A/C, last year,
> because I couldn't see how the A/C could have anything to do with engine
> temperature - aside from being an additional load on the engine. But the
> incidents this spring have happened only when the A/C was running and the
> car wasn't moving.
>
> I'm at a loss. Help would be appreciated.
>
>
> --
> Because Linux is not commercial--because it is, in fact, free, as well
> as rather difficult to obtain, install, and operate--it does not have
> to maintain any pretensions as to its reliability. Consequently, it is
> much more reliable.
> - Neal Stephenson
>

"Jeff Dege" > wrote in message
news
> Early last fall, I was driving along - or rather, sitting still on the
> highway waiting for traffic to move, on a hot, humid day with the air
> conditioner running, when I suddenly heard this sputtering hiss and a puff
> of white smoke or steam coming from under the hood. I looked at my
> gauges, and the engine temperature was spiking - moving up very rapidly.
>
> I immediately turned the A/C off, the heater on full, and started looking
> for a place to pull over onto the shoulder. The temp immediately began
> dropping as quickly as it had risen. So I drove it to the shop.
>
> The temp had gone up so fast, and had come back down again, so fast, that
> all I could figure was that the coolant had stopped circulating entirely,
> then started again. So I wasn't at all surprised that the shop told me I
> needed to replace my water pump and belts.
>
> Turned out that that was the last hot spell of the year, and I never ran
> my A/C again, after getting the car out of the shop, until this spring.
>
> As it got warm again, I turned on the A/C again, and again, on occasion,
> I've been getting the hiss and spurt of white smoke or steam. when it's
> hot outside, when the engine has been running long enough to reach full
> temperature, when the A/C is running, and when the car is stationary.
>
> The difference between this spring and last fall is that the engine
> temperature isn't moving at all - it's staying exactly where it should be.
> So it appears that the water pump was the cause of the temperature spike,
> and that the his and puff of smoke is something else that just happened to
> happen at the same time.
>
> Any ideas as to what it is? I hadn't connected it to the A/C, last year,
> because I couldn't see how the A/C could have anything to do with engine
> temperature - aside from being an additional load on the engine. But the
> incidents this spring have happened only when the A/C was running and the
> car wasn't moving.
>
> I'm at a loss. Help would be appreciated.
>
>
> --
> Because Linux is not commercial--because it is, in fact, free, as well
> as rather difficult to obtain, install, and operate--it does not have
> to maintain any pretensions as to its reliability. Consequently, it is
> much more reliable.
> - Neal Stephenson
>
Im at a lost just as much as you are because I have no idea what the
year/make/model is?

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 13:17:28 -0400, maxpower wrote:

> "Jeff Dege" > wrote in message
> news >
>> Early last fall, I was driving along - or rather, sitting still on the
>> highway waiting for traffic to move, on a hot, humid day with the air
>> conditioner running, when I suddenly heard this sputtering hiss and a
>> puff of white smoke or steam coming from under the hood. I looked at my
>> gauges, and the engine temperature was spiking - moving up very rapidly.
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> Any ideas as to what it is? I hadn't connected it to the A/C, last
>> year, because I couldn't see how the A/C could have anything to do with
>> engine temperature - aside from being an additional load on the engine.
>> But the incidents this spring have happened only when the A/C was
>> running and the car wasn't moving.
>>
>> I'm at a loss. Help would be appreciated.
>
> Im at a lost just as much as you are because I have no idea what the
> year/make/model is?

2003 PT Cruiser

--
Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum.

Jeff Dege wrote:
> Early last fall, I was driving along - or rather, sitting still on the
> highway waiting for traffic to move, on a hot, humid day with the air
> conditioner running, when I suddenly heard this sputtering hiss and a puff
> of white smoke or steam coming from under the hood. I looked at my
> gauges, and the engine temperature was spiking - moving up very rapidly.
>
> I immediately turned the A/C off, the heater on full, and started looking
> for a place to pull over onto the shoulder. The temp immediately began
> dropping as quickly as it had risen. So I drove it to the shop.
>
> The temp had gone up so fast, and had come back down again, so fast, that
> all I could figure was that the coolant had stopped circulating entirely,
> then started again. So I wasn't at all surprised that the shop told me I
> needed to replace my water pump and belts.
>
> Turned out that that was the last hot spell of the year, and I never ran
> my A/C again, after getting the car out of the shop, until this spring.
>
> As it got warm again, I turned on the A/C again, and again, on occasion,
> I've been getting the hiss and spurt of white smoke or steam. when it's
> hot outside, when the engine has been running long enough to reach full
> temperature, when the A/C is running, and when the car is stationary.
>
> The difference between this spring and last fall is that the engine
> temperature isn't moving at all - it's staying exactly where it should be.
> So it appears that the water pump was the cause of the temperature spike,
> and that the his and puff of smoke is something else that just happened to
> happen at the same time.
>
> Any ideas as to what it is? I hadn't connected it to the A/C, last year,
> because I couldn't see how the A/C could have anything to do with engine
> temperature - aside from being an additional load on the engine. But the
> incidents this spring have happened only when the A/C was running and the
> car wasn't moving.
>
> I'm at a loss. Help would be appreciated.
>
>

Sounds like the compressor is either locking up or loading up heavily so
that clutch is slipping, or the belt itself is slipping. Does the
"smoke" smell like burning rubber (belt), or hot metal (compressor clutch)?

Start with the simple stuff- check the tension and condition of the AC
compressor belt.

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 14:06:32 -0500, Steve wrote:

> Jeff Dege wrote:
>> Early last fall, I was driving along - or rather, sitting still on the
>> highway waiting for traffic to move, on a hot, humid day with the air
>> conditioner running, when I suddenly heard this sputtering hiss and a
>> puff of white smoke or steam coming from under the hood. I looked at my
>> gauges, and the engine temperature was spiking - moving up very rapidly.
>>
> Sounds like the compressor is either locking up or loading up heavily so
> that clutch is slipping, or the belt itself is slipping. Does the "smoke"
> smell like burning rubber (belt), or hot metal (compressor clutch)?

Neither. No smell, and it looks like steam. A puff of white that
dissipates quickly.

--
The other day I was talking with a Democrat friend about the election.
She'd remarked, with equal amounts of sarcasm and good-natured ribbing,
that the GOP had two years to build utopia. I thought about that later
while walking Jasper around the block, and thought, no; they're not about
building utopia. Personally, I'm interested in keeping other people from
building Utopia, because the more you believe you can create heaven on
earth the more likely you are to set up guillotines in the public square
to hasten the process.
- James Lileks

Jeff Dege wrote:

> On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 14:06:32 -0500, Steve wrote:
>
>
>>Jeff Dege wrote:
>>
>>>Early last fall, I was driving along - or rather, sitting still on the
>>>highway waiting for traffic to move, on a hot, humid day with the air
>>>conditioner running, when I suddenly heard this sputtering hiss and a
>>>puff of white smoke or steam coming from under the hood. I looked at my
>>>gauges, and the engine temperature was spiking - moving up very rapidly.
>>>
>>
>>Sounds like the compressor is either locking up or loading up heavily so
>>that clutch is slipping, or the belt itself is slipping. Does the "smoke"
>>smell like burning rubber (belt), or hot metal (compressor clutch)?
>
>
> Neither. No smell, and it looks like steam. A puff of white that
> dissipates quickly.

One thing to consider: The cap on the pressure bottle. They can start
leaking but not leave much evidence. You might want to replace that -
get it from the dealer - not aftermarket. Not too expensive, and should
be replaced periodically anyway, so just do it with the possibility that
it could be contributing to or causing the problem. Once you lose the
pressure that enables the coolant to go well over normal boiling
temperature, things get nuts.

Also - running the a.c. presents a much bigger thermal load on the
engine and cooling system than I think you realize - it usually is what
pushes the cooling system over the edge when there is a problem that
make the system marginal.

Fan operation? Thermostat?

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

"Jeff Dege" > wrote in message
news
> Early last fall, I was driving along - or rather, sitting still on the
> highway waiting for traffic to move, on a hot, humid day with the air
> conditioner running, when I suddenly heard this sputtering hiss and a puff
> of white smoke or steam coming from under the hood. I looked at my
> gauges, and the engine temperature was spiking - moving up very rapidly.
>
> I immediately turned the A/C off, the heater on full, and started looking
> for a place to pull over onto the shoulder. The temp immediately began
> dropping as quickly as it had risen. So I drove it to the shop.
>
> The temp had gone up so fast, and had come back down again, so fast, that
> all I could figure was that the coolant had stopped circulating entirely,
> then started again. So I wasn't at all surprised that the shop told me I
> needed to replace my water pump and belts.
>
> Turned out that that was the last hot spell of the year, and I never ran
> my A/C again, after getting the car out of the shop, until this spring.
>
> As it got warm again, I turned on the A/C again, and again, on occasion,
> I've been getting the hiss and spurt of white smoke or steam. when it's
> hot outside, when the engine has been running long enough to reach full
> temperature, when the A/C is running, and when the car is stationary.
>
> The difference between this spring and last fall is that the engine
> temperature isn't moving at all - it's staying exactly where it should be.
> So it appears that the water pump was the cause of the temperature spike,
> and that the his and puff of smoke is something else that just happened to
> happen at the same time.
>
> Any ideas as to what it is? I hadn't connected it to the A/C, last year,
> because I couldn't see how the A/C could have anything to do with engine
> temperature - aside from being an additional load on the engine. But the
> incidents this spring have happened only when the A/C was running and the
> car wasn't moving.
>
> I'm at a loss. Help would be appreciated.
>
>
> --
> Because Linux is not commercial--because it is, in fact, free, as well
> as rather difficult to obtain, install, and operate--it does not have
> to maintain any pretensions as to its reliability. Consequently, it is
> much more reliable.
> - Neal Stephenson
>
More then likely your cooling fan 2 stage motor is only working on the stage
that allows the fan to turn on when the engine is hot. When you turn the a/c
compressor on the fan will turn on at the same time. The condenser builds up
so much heat/pressure and will cause engine temp to flare. The puff and
white smoke you heard was the pressure release valve blowing out your R134
to allow the temp/pressure to stabilize.Now that you released the r134 the
a/c should not blow as cold, especially at idle. First thing to do is find
out if the radiator fan turns on when the compressor is requested to turn
on. and then make sure the system is properly charged. Whoever you have
doing this make sure they do NOT use the high side port at the top near the
low port or it will give them a false high side reading or a restriction
diagnoses. They have to use the high side port at the compressor.

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 06:00:27 -0400, maxpower wrote:

>
> "Jeff Dege" > wrote in message
> news
>> Early last fall, I was driving along - or rather, sitting still on the
>> highway waiting for traffic to move, on a hot, humid day with the air
>> conditioner running, when I suddenly heard this sputtering hiss and a
>> puff of white smoke or steam coming from under the hood. I looked at my
>> gauges, and the engine temperature was spiking - moving up very rapidly.
>>
> More then likely your cooling fan 2 stage motor is only working on the
> stage that allows the fan to turn on when the engine is hot. When you turn
> the a/c compressor on the fan will turn on at the same time. The condenser
> builds up so much heat/pressure and will cause engine temp to flare. The
> puff and white smoke you heard was the pressure release valve blowing out
> your R134 to allow the temp/pressure to stabilize.Now that you released
> the r134 the a/c should not blow as cold, especially at idle. First thing
> to do is find out if the radiator fan turns on when the compressor is
> requested to turn on. and then make sure the system is properly charged.
> Whoever you have doing this make sure they do NOT use the high side port
> at the top near the low port or it will give them a false high side
> reading or a restriction diagnoses. They have to use the high side port at
> the compressor.

That does fit the symptoms.

Next the question.

Will this cause problems, if I don't fix it right away, provided that I
either don't run the A/C, or shut off the A/C at idle?

--
You'd think that after all this time
I would have dreamed up a really clever .sig!

"Jeff Dege" > wrote in message
news
> On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 06:00:27 -0400, maxpower wrote:
>
> >
> > "Jeff Dege" > wrote in message
> > news
> >> Early last fall, I was driving along - or rather, sitting still on the
> >> highway waiting for traffic to move, on a hot, humid day with the air
> >> conditioner running, when I suddenly heard this sputtering hiss and a
> >> puff of white smoke or steam coming from under the hood. I looked at
my
> >> gauges, and the engine temperature was spiking - moving up very
rapidly.
> >>
> > More then likely your cooling fan 2 stage motor is only working on the
> > stage that allows the fan to turn on when the engine is hot. When you
turn
> > the a/c compressor on the fan will turn on at the same time. The
condenser
> > builds up so much heat/pressure and will cause engine temp to flare. The
> > puff and white smoke you heard was the pressure release valve blowing
out
> > your R134 to allow the temp/pressure to stabilize.Now that you released
> > the r134 the a/c should not blow as cold, especially at idle. First
thing
> > to do is find out if the radiator fan turns on when the compressor is
> > requested to turn on. and then make sure the system is properly charged.
> > Whoever you have doing this make sure they do NOT use the high side port
> > at the top near the low port or it will give them a false high side
> > reading or a restriction diagnoses. They have to use the high side port
at
> > the compressor.
>
> That does fit the symptoms.
>
> Next the question.
>
> Will this cause problems, if I don't fix it right away, provided that I
> either don't run the A/C, or shut off the A/C at idle?
>
> --
> You'd think that after all this time
> I would have dreamed up a really clever .sig!
>
well your A/C is not blowing as cold as it should since the release valve
dumped off R134. Keep in mind in the winter time when you use your defroster
or a rainy day in the summer your A/C is being used to remove the moisture
from the vehicle. Thus needing that fan to keep the condenser cool and the
high side pressure down. And who's to say that the fan motor may completely
go out all together?
Just a thought

Glenn