No Oil Filter???

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:21:26 GMT, Narley Dude® >
wrote:

>>
>>Oh man.
>>
>>It doesn't seem like that long since the last time I was there. I guess
>>time passes fast when you're not paying attention.
>>
>>Hmmm. Web page is still up. http://www.rpsystems.com/knights/
>
>OH MY GOD!!!!!! I'm on hold..... it was ANGEL that answered the phone.
>I'll keep you posted...
>YIPPPIE!~!
>You just made my day!
>
>Narley Dude®

KNIGHT'S UPDATE:

A company called Foreign Car Parts bought Knight's old phone number
(and website) that is how I got over to them. Their address is 10711
East N.W. Highway in Garland. It's not at the same old location. Angel
now works for them, he told me that he does have occasional VW
parts... minor stuff, nothing like the inventory they had. Dave works
somewhere in Roulette... (I really never cared too much for him...
always dealt with Angel and Leroy) Terry (Leroy's wife) still lives in
Forney but in a different house. She works an administration position
for the Forney schools and is doing well.
It's good to hear that they all have moved on and are doing good.
That's all I got.




Narley Dude®

John Connolly wrote:
> you do not need to get clean air into the case Mike. Air will move to the
> lower pressure from the higher pressure, right? If crankcase pressure is
> higher then the air filter, it moves from the crankcase thru the vent tube
> to the air filter and is sucked in and burned (H2O and HCs). If Pressure in
> the crankcase is LOWER then the filter housing (only during decelleration),
> then it moves from the filtered area of the inside of the air filter, to the
> crankcase.
>
> Does this make sense? The only time you need to "filter" the breather tube
> is if it's ventilated to the air and not the air filter, which we have
> already suggested is not a good idea anyways.

Hm. So we install a real filter, slap on a sand seal, make sure we have
a hose connected from the oil filler to the air cleaner and we are good
to go? Dust our hands off, consider it a Job Well Done . . . and our oil
changes now become less frequent?

Sounds too easy!


--
--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR

EXACTLY! But it's amazing how many shops can't do this.

John
Aircooled.Net Inc.

> Hm. So we install a real filter, slap on a sand seal, make sure we have
> a hose connected from the oil filler to the air cleaner and we are good
> to go? Dust our hands off, consider it a Job Well Done . . . and our oil
> changes now become less frequent?
>
> Sounds too easy!

John Connolly wrote:
> EXACTLY! But it's amazing how many shops can't do this.

I'll be darned. It does beg the question, though, which I asked a little
way up this thread: Why didn't VW put a seal there?

Jan says, "Ventilation?", and offers some good thought on that.

I proposed: $$$?

--

Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR

-=-=-
"Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will
pick himself up and continue."
-- Winston Churchill
------------------------------------

John Connolly wrote:
>
> you do not need to get clean air into the case Mike. Air will move to the
> lower pressure from the higher pressure, right? If crankcase pressure is
> higher then the air filter, it moves from the crankcase thru the vent tube
> to the air filter and is sucked in and burned (H2O and HCs). If Pressure in
> the crankcase is LOWER then the filter housing (only during decelleration),
> then it moves from the filtered area of the inside of the air filter, to the
> crankcase.

That sounds absolutely beautiful... in theory. But you need air
*flow*...
which you can't get from a sealed engine case through that single
outlet.
Pressure does not mean volume. Pressure inside the case is not constant,
it's pulses.
Quite rapid pulses, but still.

You have to replace the air you suck out somehow. If the container is
sealed, you can't.

And if you have enough blowby to create noticeable constant airflow....
then you have other problems to worry about, far more severe than case
ventilation issues...


Jan

the case ventilates thru the PCV even with a seal, putting filtered air into
the case if required.

I am assuming they omitted the seal because it's a budget car and budget
engine.

John
Aircooled.Net Inc.

Jan,

the air is coming from the tube attached to the filtered side of the air
filter. It's an open pressure system, but filtered.

Anyone that wants to experiment with this, disconnect and plug your
crankcase breather tube and go for a drive. :-)

John
Aircooled.Net Inc.

--
Please allow up to 48 hours for a representative of Aircooled.Net to respond
to your email inquiry. If you have not received a response in over 72 hours
(3 days), please send a follow up email, since it is possible that our email
filter system may have flagged and captured your first message as a "spam"
if it had any elements that matched typical characteristics common to
unsolicited mail.
"Jan Andersson" > wrote in message
...
> John Connolly wrote:
> >
> > you do not need to get clean air into the case Mike. Air will move to
the
> > lower pressure from the higher pressure, right? If crankcase pressure is
> > higher then the air filter, it moves from the crankcase thru the vent
tube
> > to the air filter and is sucked in and burned (H2O and HCs). If Pressure
in
> > the crankcase is LOWER then the filter housing (only during
decelleration),
> > then it moves from the filtered area of the inside of the air filter, to
the
> > crankcase.
>
> That sounds absolutely beautiful... in theory. But you need air
> *flow*...
> which you can't get from a sealed engine case through that single
> outlet.
> Pressure does not mean volume. Pressure inside the case is not constant,
> it's pulses.
> Quite rapid pulses, but still.
>
> You have to replace the air you suck out somehow. If the container is
> sealed, you can't.
>
> And if you have enough blowby to create noticeable constant airflow....
> then you have other problems to worry about, far more severe than case
> ventilation issues...
>
>
> Jan

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote:
>

> How do more modern engines get clean air into the case?
>


Positive Crankcase Ventilation system. It's one of the places where
fumes are collected from, and routed through a charcoal canister, then
purged into the intake manifold so they get sucked into the combustion
chamber and burned.

Modern car engines are fully sealed units like that. The only way for
dirty air to get it is when you take the dip**** out or open the oil
filler cap. The rest is a controlled closed environment.

On my subaru, the crankcase has constant vacuum. When I pull the
dipstick, the engine rpms drop. Not by much, but just so I notice.

A set of valves and solenoids and sensors tell the system when to suck,
when to close the valve, and when to release the collected fumes into
the manifold.

Jan

John Connolly wrote:
>
> Jan,

John

Hope you don't take this as arguing. I'm curious to hear your comments
on my views


> the air is coming from the tube attached to the filtered side of the air
> filter. It's an open pressure system, but filtered.

You are mixing two different things again. Airflow and pressure.

How can it go back into the engine, when there's the carburator suckin
all the air in? And by your description, the tube would be already
flowing case air OUT?

For just pressure relief purposes this would be just great. But I don't
see any air going backweards in that single tube while the engine is
running. The air filter would have to be pressurised, yet during engine
operation, it always has vacuum if anything.



> Anyone that wants to experiment with this, disconnect and plug your
> crankcase breather tube and go for a drive. :-)

You'd prolly get oil leaks. Which would be due to inadequate pressure
relief. Duhh.

Doesn't have any (well, minimal) effect on case air circulation, i.e.
venting.

Jan

it flows both ways in that tube Jan. It flows from crankcase to air filter
when the crankcase is pressurized (when the engine is making power), but it
flows the OTHER WAY during high vacuum decelleration (downshifting). That's
why it's important that hose is connected on the filtered side of the air
filter. Our engines don't have that PCV valve which prevents flow one-way.

this isn't arguing, it's discussion. :-D

John
Aircooled.Net Inc.