Dana 30 gear noise

When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
for pinion test.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Peter Pontbriand wrote:
>
> Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue Loc-Tite then.
>
> All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and tighten the nut to 160
> lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and turned the pinion with
> my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it needs to be tighter.
> I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard to tell what's lash
> and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a helper with stronger
> legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake pedal hard enough to
> stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion nut.
>
> /Peter
>
> "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi Peter,
> > I never have, but then I've heard of many that have loosened. If
> > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is not sliding up
> > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as the crush sleeve
> > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them. Have you hit it
> > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful in feeling with the
> > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > http://www.billhughes.com/
> >
> > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > >
> > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's been re-used a
> couple of
> > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on it? Red or Blue?
> > >
> > > /Peter

Without axles? Sheesh, then it's really too loose since it's taking less
than thirty to spin the whole shebang, wheels and tires included.

/Peter

"L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
...
> When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
> yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
> bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
> for pinion test.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> >
> > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue Loc-Tite then.
> >
> > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and tighten the nut to 160
> > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and turned the pinion
with
> > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it needs to be
tighter.
> > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard to tell what's
lash
> > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a helper with
stronger
> > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake pedal hard enough
to
> > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion nut.
> >
> > /Peter
> >
> > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Hi Peter,
> > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that have loosened. If
> > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is not sliding up
> > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as the crush
sleeve
> > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them. Have you hit it
> > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful in feeling with
the
> > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > >
> > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's been re-used a
> > couple of
> > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on it? Red or Blue?
> > > >
> > > > /Peter

EWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve wrote:
>I use one like this:
>
> http://www.performancebike.com/shop/....cfm?SKU=11387
>
>Steve
>http://xjeep.dyndns.org
>
>> A dial type torque wrench would be better for this sort of thing.
>>
>[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>>>
>>>/Peter


--
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com

Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the pinion gear from
turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that. This is a
ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a wrench of any
sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for holding the
yoke.

Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs, and axle
shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to tighten the
nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?

/Peter

"L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
...
> When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
> yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
> bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
> for pinion test.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> >
> > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue Loc-Tite then.
> >
> > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and tighten the nut to 160
> > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and turned the pinion
with
> > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it needs to be
tighter.
> > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard to tell what's
lash
> > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a helper with
stronger
> > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake pedal hard enough
to
> > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion nut.
> >
> > /Peter
> >
> > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Hi Peter,
> > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that have loosened. If
> > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is not sliding up
> > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as the crush
sleeve
> > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them. Have you hit it
> > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful in feeling with
the
> > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > >
> > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's been re-used a
> > couple of
> > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on it? Red or Blue?
> > > >
> > > > /Peter

The 30-in-lb is *Not* without axles. Steve gave you a link to the Dana
Light Axle Service Manual, ( http://xjeep.dyndns.org/danaspicer.pdf )
which is what I also used when I said to go between 24 and 45. Page 9 of
the manual gives the specs, and Page 10 gives an example of how to
calculate it. So you start off with between 15-30 for the pinion
bearing, add 3 more for the seal, and then 6-12 for differential bearing
preload (This last number is good for all ratios between 3.07 and 4.88).

BTW, the Haynes manual (if you trust it) says you do not have to replace
the crush sleeve, instead go for a couple in-pounds more preload which
suggests going toward the high side of the spec.

--
jeff

Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> Without axles? Sheesh, then it's really too loose since it's taking less
> than thirty to spin the whole shebang, wheels and tires included.
>
> /Peter
>
> "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
>>yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
>>bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
>>for pinion test.

Unfortunately Peter, that is the only way to get it right if you don't
have that grabber tool. I would fast be making a bar of steel up with a
couple holes drilled into it so I could bolt it to the pinion to hold it
steady while tightening.

They are a real bitch to set up and for all the engine and other kinds
of work I do, I send out the diffs. Then a Jeep shop did mine wrong
even and it cost me a cool $500.00 to fix at a 'real' machine shop!

They are something like setting up a steering box, you cannot do the
preload with the steering wheel or drag link attached. If you do, you
fast have a dead box.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Peter Pontbriand wrote:
>
> Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the pinion gear from
> turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that. This is a
> ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a wrench of any
> sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for holding the
> yoke.
>
> Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs, and axle
> shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to tighten the
> nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?
>
> /Peter
>
> "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> ...
> > When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
> > yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
> > bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
> > for pinion test.
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > http://www.billhughes.com/
> >
> > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > >
> > > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue Loc-Tite then.
> > >
> > > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and tighten the nut to 160
> > > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and turned the pinion
> with
> > > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it needs to be
> tighter.
> > > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard to tell what's
> lash
> > > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a helper with
> stronger
> > > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake pedal hard enough
> to
> > > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion nut.
> > >
> > > /Peter
> > >
> > > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that have loosened. If
> > > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is not sliding up
> > > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as the crush
> sleeve
> > > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them. Have you hit it
> > > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful in feeling with
> the
> > > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > >
> > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's been re-used a
> > > couple of
> > > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on it? Red or Blue?
> > > > >
> > > > > /Peter

And if you get it right, then you best be running out to buy a lottery
ticket because it is your day!

Those preloads are for a R+R job with all new parts. They will not
match up to real life on used equipment.

Just my $0.02,

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

jeff wrote:
>
> The 30-in-lb is *Not* without axles. Steve gave you a link to the Dana
> Light Axle Service Manual, ( http://xjeep.dyndns.org/danaspicer.pdf )
> which is what I also used when I said to go between 24 and 45. Page 9 of
> the manual gives the specs, and Page 10 gives an example of how to
> calculate it. So you start off with between 15-30 for the pinion
> bearing, add 3 more for the seal, and then 6-12 for differential bearing
> preload (This last number is good for all ratios between 3.07 and 4.88).
>
> BTW, the Haynes manual (if you trust it) says you do not have to replace
> the crush sleeve, instead go for a couple in-pounds more preload which
> suggests going toward the high side of the spec.
>
> --
> jeff
>
> Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > Without axles? Sheesh, then it's really too loose since it's taking less
> > than thirty to spin the whole shebang, wheels and tires included.
> >
> > /Peter
> >
> > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >> When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
> >>yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
> >>bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
> >>for pinion test.

Steve: The axle outers in this case are a non-preloaded roller which can
safely be ignored, the outer seals may contribute an inch pound or two.
What would be a good adder for the spindles? They seem to turn quite
freely by hand. Pulling the disk brakes, spindles, and axles for each
check does not seem practical.

--
jeff


Steve wrote:
> No, the manual does not account for axle bearing resistance, so axles
> should be removed when measuring against the calculated spec.
>
> Steve
> http://xjeep.dyndns.org
>
> jeff wrote:
>
>> The 30-in-lb is *Not* without axles. Steve gave you a link to the Dana
>> Light Axle Service Manual, ( http://xjeep.dyndns.org/danaspicer.pdf )
>> which is what I also used when I said to go between 24 and 45. Page 9
>> of the manual gives the specs, and Page 10 gives an example of how to
>> calculate it. So you start off with between 15-30 for the pinion
>> bearing, add 3 more for the seal, and then 6-12 for differential
>> bearing preload (This last number is good for all ratios between 3.07
>> and 4.88).
>>
>> BTW, the Haynes manual (if you trust it) says you do not have to
>> replace the crush sleeve, instead go for a couple in-pounds more
>> preload which suggests going toward the high side of the spec.
>>

Don't forget the u-joint load. Some u-joints can be stiff and add
radically to the rotation force. They have a different load according
to wear, fresh grease, just installed and tight, water inside and rusted
needles if sealed ones, etc....

Then there is the brake pad to rotor load. There are some inch lb
involved there and if the wheel isn't on, then the rotor is unlikely to
be square so will drag.

Gotta be some seals and bearings in the hub with load on them too, no?

You also can't take any of these loads from the book. Wear and water
are involved.

There is a reason for special tools......

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

jeff wrote:
>
> Steve: The axle outers in this case are a non-preloaded roller which can
> safely be ignored, the outer seals may contribute an inch pound or two.
> What would be a good adder for the spindles? They seem to turn quite
> freely by hand. Pulling the disk brakes, spindles, and axles for each
> check does not seem practical.
>
> --
> jeff
>
> Steve wrote:
> > No, the manual does not account for axle bearing resistance, so axles
> > should be removed when measuring against the calculated spec.
> >
> > Steve
> > http://xjeep.dyndns.org
> >
> > jeff wrote:
> >
> >> The 30-in-lb is *Not* without axles. Steve gave you a link to the Dana
> >> Light Axle Service Manual, ( http://xjeep.dyndns.org/danaspicer.pdf )
> >> which is what I also used when I said to go between 24 and 45. Page 9
> >> of the manual gives the specs, and Page 10 gives an example of how to
> >> calculate it. So you start off with between 15-30 for the pinion
> >> bearing, add 3 more for the seal, and then 6-12 for differential
> >> bearing preload (This last number is good for all ratios between 3.07
> >> and 4.88).
> >>
> >> BTW, the Haynes manual (if you trust it) says you do not have to
> >> replace the crush sleeve, instead go for a couple in-pounds more
> >> preload which suggests going toward the high side of the spec.
> >>

Thanks Mike. I knew there was a reason why I wasn't winning the lottery.
I used all my luck up when I replaced the rear yoke on my YJ. I just
snugged the replacement up tight until I got out of the woods, and then
tightened it to 35 in-lb running torque. I won't do that again but it
has lasted about 70,000 miles so far. Live and learn.

--
jeff


Mike Romain wrote:
> And if you get it right, then you best be running out to buy a lottery
> ticket because it is your day!
>
> Those preloads are for a R+R job with all new parts. They will not
> match up to real life on used equipment.