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#1
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What the . . . ? Fattie adjusting screws!
Several months ago I bought a Gene Berg swivel screw ("elephant foot")
valve adjuster kit for the Wonderbus. Didn't install the kit because that engine blew up. I purchased a replacement 1600 DP engine in Mexico and put it in the Wonderbus and it has been peachy ever since. Today I got around to pulling the rocker assemblies off the new engine with an eye toward installing the swivel foots and discovered that the newer rocker arms take M10 adjusting screws. But the GB kit is set up for rockers with M8 thread. I stared and harrumphed for a while, then disconsolately put the rocker assembly back onto the engine with the factory adjusting screws. They are already becoming faceted so I want to sort out this little issue out promptly. Berg's website makes no mention of the swivel set coming with anything other than M8 adjusters, so I reckon I need to install rockers with M8 threads (I have e-mailed them requesting advice). The old engine's rockers have a lot of fretting where the rocker bears against the rocker axle, so I don't want to use them. So, sign me, "Seeking a set of good-quality factory stock-ratio rocker arms that take the M8 adjusting screw that are either new or in wonderful condition." This is a bus -- don't need ratio or fancy billet valve train bits. -- Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott 71 Type 2: the Wonderbus 84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)" KG6RCR ------------------------------------ Today's Deep Thought: Actual Test Answers Music Teachers Have Received, #19: Question: What are kettle drums called? Answer: Kettle drums. ------------------------------------ |
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#2
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"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote: > The old engine's rockers have a lot of fretting where the rocker bears against the rocker > axle, so I don't want to use them. Turn the axle shafts "upside down" to get the rocker to ride against a smooth, non-worn side of it. Note that you may need to drill the stud holes a little bigger (not all the way through!) to allow room for the thicker base of ths stud. Study the other end of the hole, you'll see a step cut. Or just buy new shafts or whole assemblies and eliminate all your problems Jan |
#3
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For a stock application, stock rockers and adjusting screws are fine. It is
normal for the adjusting screws to become faceted. Anyway, either with the Berg adjusting screws you would have to check valve clearances on every oil change, to motitor exhaust valve stretching. In case you decide to install them, keep in mind that you should keep the stock valve geometry, and to do this you will have to grind the rocker arms. Do not put spacers under the rocker towers. Bill, '67 Bug. "Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" et> wrote in message ... > Several months ago I bought a Gene Berg swivel screw ("elephant foot") > valve adjuster kit for the Wonderbus. Didn't install the kit because that > engine blew up. I purchased a replacement 1600 DP engine in Mexico and put > it in the Wonderbus and it has been peachy ever since. Today I got around > to pulling the rocker assemblies off the new engine with an eye toward > installing the swivel foots and discovered that the newer rocker arms take > M10 adjusting screws. But the GB kit is set up for rockers with M8 thread. > > I stared and harrumphed for a while, then disconsolately put the rocker > assembly back onto the engine with the factory adjusting screws. They are > already becoming faceted so I want to sort out this little issue out > promptly. > > Berg's website makes no mention of the swivel set coming with anything > other than M8 adjusters, so I reckon I need to install rockers with M8 > threads (I have e-mailed them requesting advice). The old engine's rockers > have a lot of fretting where the rocker bears against the rocker axle, so > I don't want to use them. > > So, sign me, > > "Seeking a set of good-quality factory stock-ratio rocker arms that take > the M8 adjusting screw that are either new or in wonderful condition." > > This is a bus -- don't need ratio or fancy billet valve train bits. > > -- > Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott > 71 Type 2: the Wonderbus > 84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)" > KG6RCR > ------------------------------------ > Today's Deep Thought: > > Actual Test Answers Music Teachers Have Received, #19: > Question: What are kettle drums called? Answer: Kettle drums. > ------------------------------------ |
#4
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On 12/8/2004 1:10 AM Jan stood on a soap-box and preached to the
unwashed masses: > > "Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote: > > > >>The old engine's rockers have a lot of fretting where the rocker bears against the rocker >>axle, so I don't want to use them. > > > > Turn the axle shafts "upside down" to get the rocker to ride against a > smooth, non-worn side of it. > Note that you may need to drill the stud holes a little bigger (not all > the way through!) to allow room for the thicker base of ths stud. Study > the other end of the hole, you'll see a step cut. > > Or just buy new shafts or whole assemblies and eliminate all your > problems These /are/ new shafts/assemblies on the new engine and are in tip-top condition. I want to stick on the Berg swivel feet but they are set up for M8 threads, whereas these new rockers are threaded for M10. So how would buying new assemblies help? I may be overlooking something. -- -- Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott 71 Type 2: the Wonderbus 84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)" KG6RCR ------------------------------------ Today's Deep Thought: To be intoxicated is to feel sophisticated but not be able to say it. ------------------------------------ |
#5
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On 12/8/2004 3:50 AM Bill Spiliotopoulos stood on a soap-box and
preached to the unwashed masses: > For a stock application, stock rockers and adjusting screws are fine. It is > normal for the adjusting screws to become faceted. > Anyway, either with the Berg adjusting screws you would have to check valve > clearances on every oil change, to motitor exhaust valve stretching. In case > you decide to install them, keep in mind that you should keep the stock > valve geometry, and to do this you will have to grind the rocker arms. Do > not put spacers under the rocker towers. > The advantage to the swivels is that the ends of the adjusting screws do not get faceted. As I understand it, once the tip is faceted, accurate valve adjustment is very hard to accomplish. So I'm either replacing adjusting screws (M10 ones? are they easily available?) or living with sloppy valve adjustment. So the Berg setup -- shims under the towers -- is bogus? I know that the valve geometry must get disturbed by the shims, but this is a 1600DP on a bus with standard valves and non-ratio rockers, etc. I don't think that this slight change to the geometry will affect my performance. Back to my question: where does a squirrel find new or really good condition stock rockers w/ the stock M8 thread? -- Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott 71 Type 2: the Wonderbus 84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)" KG6RCR ------------------------------------ Today's Deep Thought: Sevareid's Rule: "The chief cause of problems is solutions." ------------------------------------ |
#6
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"The advantage to the swivels is that the ends of the adjusting screws
do not get faceted. As I understand it, once the tip is faceted, accurate valve adjustment is very hard to accomplish." Agreed. Once the tip of the screw starts to flatten out a bit, you do the obvious..turn it in to reduce the clearance. But that also presents a new 'unworn' portion of the screw, so your lash adjustment becomes tedious. The clearance goes away very quickly; the new surface on the screw is higher than the worn spot, and the screw is moving towards the valve stem at the same time. "So the Berg setup -- shims under the towers -- is bogus? " No. I've used the berg shims. You don't want to use washers because that can cause the rocker tower to fracture, but using a berg shim which covers the entire surface is not a problem in my opinion. I don't like the fact that the berg shims are a press-fit on the studs, Berg says they need to be like that..I disagree. I usually drill them out just a tad so they slip on easily. I visually check to make sure they remain lined up as I tighten down the rocker shaft. "Back to my question: where does a squirrel find new or really good condition stock rockers w/ the stock M8 thread?" No idea. Have you confirmed that berg does not offer the swivel adjusters in the larger thread? If you haven't run the M8 sized ones yet maybe they will exchange them for you? Chris |
#7
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"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote:
> > On 12/8/2004 1:10 AM Jan stood on a soap-box and preached to the > unwashed masses: > > > > > "Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote: > > > > > > > >>The old engine's rockers have a lot of fretting where the rocker bears against the rocker > >>axle, so I don't want to use them. > > > > > > > > Turn the axle shafts "upside down" to get the rocker to ride against a > > smooth, non-worn side of it. > > Note that you may need to drill the stud holes a little bigger (not all > > the way through!) to allow room for the thicker base of ths stud. Study > > the other end of the hole, you'll see a step cut. > > > > Or just buy new shafts or whole assemblies and eliminate all your > > problems > > These /are/ new shafts/assemblies on the new engine and are in tip-top > condition. I want to stick on the Berg swivel feet but they are set up > for M8 threads, whereas these new rockers are threaded for M10. So how > would buying new assemblies help? I may be overlooking something. > > -- OOps, I need to take a few reading comprehension classes myself. Disregard anything and everything I said Jan |
#8
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> The advantage to the swivels is that the ends of the adjusting screws do
> not get faceted. As I understand it, once the tip is faceted, accurate > valve adjustment is very hard to accomplish. Not very hard, just a bit less accurate, but nothing to worry about. You can replace or resurface the adjusting screws by wiping on sandpaper every 3-4 oil changes if you want. You can adjust just a bit tighter (so that the feeler gauge slides tightly) to compensate for the wearing in in the new position. Anyway, don't worry so much about extra accurate settings, even the feeler gauges don't have 100% accurate thicknesses. They usually are 10-20% off their nominal thickness. Try to measure one with a micrometer and you'll see. Try not to have less than about 0.15mm valve lash the engine will be happy. With more valve lash the valve noise increases and if exesive you might lose a bit of power. > > So the Berg setup -- shims under the towers -- is bogus? I know that the > valve geometry must get disturbed by the shims, but this is a 1600DP on a > bus with standard valves and non-ratio rockers, etc. I don't think that > this slight change to the geometry will affect my performance. It doesn't have to do as much with performance, as with valve guide wear. Maybe sims or spacers don't alter the geometry too much, but why go worse than stock? The idea is to do modifications the right way in order to improve things. If you find that spacers are needed, the entire valve geometry must be rechecked. Otherwise, it is better to stay with the stock adjusters. Bill, '67 Bug. |
#9
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> Back to my question: where does a squirrel find new or really good
> condition stock rockers w/ the stock M8 thread? I don't know where you can find, I live in Greece so I won't be able to help on this one. But I believe that most probably you wouldn't have a problem using your old rockers on the new shafts. It is normal for the rockers to get polished at the load side (bottom) but this is not to worry, expept if they are really really worn and they have noticeable sideways when fited on the shafts. Bill, '67 Bug. > > -- > Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott > 71 Type 2: the Wonderbus > 84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)" > KG6RCR > ------------------------------------ > Today's Deep Thought: > > Sevareid's Rule: "The chief cause of problems is solutions." > ------------------------------------ |
#10
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On 12/8/2004 9:22 AM Hal stood on a soap-box and preached to the
unwashed masses: > > "Back to my question: where does a squirrel find new or really good > condition stock rockers w/ the stock M8 thread?" > > No idea. Have you confirmed that berg does not offer the swivel > adjusters in the larger thread? If you haven't run the M8 sized ones > yet maybe they will exchange them for you? They don't list anything but the M8 on their site, and they've not yet responded to my e-mailed inquiry of yesterday. We await patiently. -- Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott 71 Type 2: the Wonderbus 84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)" KG6RCR |
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