Relating to the "Hot Distributor" discussion

Have been waiting for a reply from Bob, in the mean time I will post this up

for discussion.



Copy of email below



Hi Bob,



Hope this finds you well. We have conversed over some years now, the

last time on the "bend" in the shift rod.



While I agree with most of what you have said. I disagree with your opinion

on the purpose of the trough in the distributor neck. It is not for oil
pick-up.

On installation the distributor will sit with part of the offset drive
exposed in

the hole of the crankcase. Usually where the spacers sit between the bottom
of

the neck and the offset drive. Oil is picked up at this point, and by the
circular

motion of the shaft, is drawn up the shaft past the bottom bush. Excess oil
then

runs out of the hole in the neck and down the groove back to the offset
drive and

onto the top of the distributor pinion gear.

Some oil will enter the top bush, however the spiral groves in the top of
the shaft

(in the top bush), keep oil from entering the top of the distributor. The
position of

the hole in the neck will never be exposed to the hole in the crankcase
because

it is too high on the neck. The groove can not be positioned in the hole in
the crankcase

because the vacuum can fouls the crankcase.



The distributor therefore can be positioned in any orientation in the
crankcase.



I have attached some pics as examples.

Old vw case - left hand side
http://www.vwdcqinc.org.au/images/vwcase1.jpg

Bosch distributor neck
http://www.vwdcqinc.org.au/images/distributor4.jpg

Distributor installed and turned in case till vacuum can hits
http://www.vwdcqinc.org.au/images/vwcase_dist2.jpg

Closer view of Distributor installed in correct position
http://www.vwdcqinc.org.au/images/vwcase_opening3.jpg

Hoping to hear your thoughts?



regards

Grahame
from Australia

To All:

Find below a copy of my response, sent to Grahame on 19 July 2006 and
again on the 25th.

As you can see from his email address, he expects the government of
Queensland (Australia) to pay for his private communications. The fact
both of my responses failed to arrive sez his boss may not agree :-)

-Bob Hoover

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
service copy
sent 072506

Dear Grahame,

Thank you for the thoughtful message. You'll be happy to hear that
many
share your opinion with regard to installing the distributor at any
orientation, although I am not among them.

I also appreciate the effort you've taken to provide the photos.
However,
in one of them you show the lower edge of the neck of the distributor
extending well into the opening. I suspect the distributor you're
using
as your photographic model has had its clamping ring removed.
Normally,
the lower edge of the neck is about 3mm higher than shown.

With regard to the inlet vs outlet business, I don't think it really
matters. The hole & groove is clearly there to facilitate lubrication
of
the steel bushings that were introduced with the aluminum-bodied
distributors. The fact the location of the groove is different on
distributors meant for the Type IV engines makes it pretty clear that
it's
meant to align with the 'window' in the respective crankcase castings.

The basic fact is that when a distributor is installed so that the
oiling
channel does NOT have access to the window it results in accelerated
wear
of the distributor shaft & bushings as well as premature failure of the
capacitor or of after-market electronic components (ie, Pertronix,
etc.).
Such 'mysterious' maladies have a habit of landing on my door-step.
Oddly
enough, when I point out the most probable cause a surprising number of
owners insist that can't be right. Just as you have :-) In which case
I
simply smile and wish them good luck.

-Bob Hoover

------------------------------------------------------------

Original received last Wed. and responded to within 24 hrs.

-rsh

Good pictures and opinion. I don't know all for sure because I've never
had a "hot distributor problem" and I'm satisfied that I never will
after all these years. I mean my distributor has never been hotter than
the case it is attached to or the oil within.

href="http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=4025706&a=32090944&f="Den's
Dogs</a>

href="http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=4025706&a=30209382&vt=vp">Den's
1977 Puma</a>

> wrote in message
ps.com...
> To All:
>
> Find below a copy of my response, sent to Grahame on 19 July 2006 and
> again on the 25th.
>
> As you can see from his email address, he expects the government of
> Queensland (Australia) to pay for his private communications. The fact
> both of my responses failed to arrive sez his boss may not agree :-)
>
> -Bob Hoover
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------
> service copy
> sent 072506
>
> Dear Grahame,
>
> Thank you for the thoughtful message. You'll be happy to hear that
> many
> share your opinion with regard to installing the distributor at any
> orientation, although I am not among them.
>
> I also appreciate the effort you've taken to provide the photos.
> However,
> in one of them you show the lower edge of the neck of the distributor
> extending well into the opening. I suspect the distributor you're
> using
> as your photographic model has had its clamping ring removed.
> Normally,
> the lower edge of the neck is about 3mm higher than shown.
>
> With regard to the inlet vs outlet business, I don't think it really
> matters. The hole & groove is clearly there to facilitate lubrication
> of
> the steel bushings that were introduced with the aluminum-bodied
> distributors. The fact the location of the groove is different on
> distributors meant for the Type IV engines makes it pretty clear that
> it's
> meant to align with the 'window' in the respective crankcase castings.
>
> The basic fact is that when a distributor is installed so that the
> oiling
> channel does NOT have access to the window it results in accelerated
> wear
> of the distributor shaft & bushings as well as premature failure of the
> capacitor or of after-market electronic components (ie, Pertronix,
> etc.).
> Such 'mysterious' maladies have a habit of landing on my door-step.
> Oddly
> enough, when I point out the most probable cause a surprising number of
> owners insist that can't be right. Just as you have :-) In which case
> I
> simply smile and wish them good luck.
>
> -Bob Hoover
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Original received last Wed. and responded to within 24 hrs.
>
> -rsh
>
Thanks Bob for your reply, as to your remark about the email address,
yes, I am allowed that privilege.
I will investigate why I did not receive your reply emails.
Yes, the clamping ring is not there, but I thought the discussion
was about the orientation of the groove. I will rectify the pics.
However, are you suggesting I have a Type IV distributor?
Because there is no way the distributor (groove) in the pics will
line up with the window.
I also believe (which you also preach) if you don't ask questions,
then you will remain ill informed, I value your wisdom,
that's why I wrote to you!

Grahame
from Australia

> wrote in message:
> With regard to the inlet vs outlet business, I don't think it really
> matters. The hole & groove is clearly there to facilitate lubrication
> of
> the steel bushings that were introduced with the aluminum-bodied
> distributors.....

I think it does matter. The arrangement of the various components and
features all seem to have specific reasons. Thye vacuum can on a Type 1 is
normally fitted in the 7 o'clock position for practical reasons and the oil
hole/groove seem to be always on the left (or down side) of the distributor
shaft. The positioning of the firing points on the distributor could be
argued as 'convenient to ignition cable routing'. Placing the drive shaft
correctly and installing the distributor with the rotor at #1 means that all
these specifics are met (as well as avoiding the mis-timing that would be
caused by assymetric cam distributors).

> ......The fact the location of the groove is different on
> distributors meant for the Type IV engines makes it pretty clear that
> it's
> meant to align with the 'window' in the respective crankcase castings.

Specifically what makes this clear? Again, I see the position of the Type 4
vacuum can (in the 3 o'clock position) as for practical purposes, so where
is the oil hole in relation to the window on a Type 4?

"Grahame Rumballe" > wrote in
message ...
>
> > wrote in message
> ps.com...
>> To All:
>>
>> Find below a copy of my response, sent to Grahame on 19 July 2006 and
>> again on the 25th.
>>
>> As you can see from his email address, he expects the government of
>> Queensland (Australia) to pay for his private communications. The fact
>> both of my responses failed to arrive sez his boss may not agree :-)
>>
>> -Bob Hoover
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------
>> service copy
>> sent 072506
>>
>> Dear Grahame,
>>
>> Thank you for the thoughtful message. You'll be happy to hear that
>> many
>> share your opinion with regard to installing the distributor at any
>> orientation, although I am not among them.
>>
>> I also appreciate the effort you've taken to provide the photos.
>> However,
>> in one of them you show the lower edge of the neck of the distributor
>> extending well into the opening. I suspect the distributor you're
>> using
>> as your photographic model has had its clamping ring removed.
>> Normally,
>> the lower edge of the neck is about 3mm higher than shown.
>>
>> With regard to the inlet vs outlet business, I don't think it really
>> matters. The hole & groove is clearly there to facilitate lubrication
>> of
>> the steel bushings that were introduced with the aluminum-bodied
>> distributors. The fact the location of the groove is different on
>> distributors meant for the Type IV engines makes it pretty clear that
>> it's
>> meant to align with the 'window' in the respective crankcase castings.
>>
>> The basic fact is that when a distributor is installed so that the
>> oiling
>> channel does NOT have access to the window it results in accelerated
>> wear
>> of the distributor shaft & bushings as well as premature failure of the
>> capacitor or of after-market electronic components (ie, Pertronix,
>> etc.).
>> Such 'mysterious' maladies have a habit of landing on my door-step.
>> Oddly
>> enough, when I point out the most probable cause a surprising number of
>> owners insist that can't be right. Just as you have :-) In which case
>> I
>> simply smile and wish them good luck.
>>
>> -Bob Hoover
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Original received last Wed. and responded to within 24 hrs.
>>
>> -rsh
>>
> Thanks Bob for your reply, as to your remark about the email address,
> yes, I am allowed that privilege.
> I will investigate why I did not receive your reply emails.
> Yes, the clamping ring is not there, but I thought the discussion
> was about the orientation of the groove. I will rectify the pics.
> However, are you suggesting I have a Type IV distributor?
> Because there is no way the distributor (groove) in the pics will
> line up with the window.
> I also believe (which you also preach) if you don't ask questions,
> then you will remain ill informed, I value your wisdom,
> that's why I wrote to you!
>
> Grahame
> from Australia
>
>
Have cleaned up the pics and put them here
http://www.vwdcqinc.org.au/vwdcqimag...iscussion.html

sorry about my thumb!!

Grahame
from Australia