N.Y. DA says no more plea bargains in DUI cases

In article . com>,
"gerry" > wrote:
>
> Your defend the "spoils system," with patronage hiring in the Nassau
> DA's offiice now reaching down to staff ADAs with no management role.

I defend no such system. But its ridiculous to say that an experienced
prosecutor from the opposing party replacing a 30-year incumbent can't
bring in her own leadership team.

Do you have any evidence its "spoils" or patronage and the people she
brought in with her are unqualified for their jobs?

In article >,
Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS > wrote:

> On 28 Sep 2006 21:42:03 -0700, "
> > wrote:
>
> >Larry wrote:
> >> Well, plea-bargains can get appealed too.
> >> But after a conviction by jury, there are are only retrials if there was
> >> 1) a conviction and 2) reversible error.
> >> What makes you think there will be more reversible errors if there is
> >> less plea-bargaining?
> >
> > Very simple; the guy who gets a plea bargain gets a lighter sentence
> >- and thus has much less incentive to ever appeal in the first place.
>
>
> Hey stupid. If you accept a plea bargain you have no right to appeal.

Hey stupid, you most certainly do.

There are a number of issues you *always* have the right to appeal,
including: your competency to enter a plea, your right to a speedy
trial, the effectiveness of the counsel you received, and the
jurisdiction of the court to hear your case.

There are also other issues that you may be able to appeal, depending on
the posture of the case at the time of the plea. For example, suppose a
suppression hearing is held in a drug case and the drugs are ruled
admissible. Since you know they will be used against you, you plea
guilty. You can still appeal the judge's ruling that the search was
legal, and if you win the appeal, your conviction is reversed and the
case reinstated. (Which is why a waiver of your right to appeal is
sometimes included as a condition of a plea bargain.)

You can have the last word, but to deny the existence of a clubhouse
referral system for non-civil service jobs in New York State
government, at all levels, boggles the mind. You ask for evidence.
Maybe you should read the newspapers. Or remember the golden rule in
New York, "It's not what you know, it's who you know."


Larry wrote:
> In article . com>,
> "gerry" > wrote:
> >
> > Your defend the "spoils system," with patronage hiring in the Nassau
> > DA's offiice now reaching down to staff ADAs with no management role.
>
> I defend no such system. But its ridiculous to say that an experienced
> prosecutor from the opposing party replacing a 30-year incumbent can't
> bring in her own leadership team.
>
> Do you have any evidence its "spoils" or patronage and the people she
> brought in with her are unqualified for their jobs?

In article . com>,
"gerry" > wrote:

> You can have the last word, but to deny the existence of a clubhouse
> referral system for non-civil service jobs in New York State
> government, at all levels, boggles the mind. You ask for evidence.
> Maybe you should read the newspapers. Or remember the golden rule in
> New York, "It's not what you know, it's who you know."

There are 64 counties in New York. Each one elects their own DA, who
fills the positions in his/her office by appointment as he/she sees fit.

If you're going to generalize about them all with a broad brush, there's
no point discussing it further.

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 02:25:26 GMT, Larry > wrote:

>In article >,
> Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS > wrote:
>
>> On 28 Sep 2006 21:42:03 -0700, "
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Larry wrote:
>> >> Well, plea-bargains can get appealed too.
>> >> But after a conviction by jury, there are are only retrials if there was
>> >> 1) a conviction and 2) reversible error.
>> >> What makes you think there will be more reversible errors if there is
>> >> less plea-bargaining?
>> >
>> > Very simple; the guy who gets a plea bargain gets a lighter sentence
>> >- and thus has much less incentive to ever appeal in the first place.
>>
>>
>> Hey stupid. If you accept a plea bargain you have no right to appeal.
>
>Hey stupid, you most certainly do.
>
>There are a number of issues you *always* have the right to appeal,
>including: your competency to enter a plea, your right to a speedy
>trial, the effectiveness of the counsel you received, and the
>jurisdiction of the court to hear your case.
>
>There are also other issues that you may be able to appeal, depending on
>the posture of the case at the time of the plea. For example, suppose a
>suppression hearing is held in a drug case and the drugs are ruled
>admissible. Since you know they will be used against you, you plea
>guilty. You can still appeal the judge's ruling that the search was
>legal, and if you win the appeal, your conviction is reversed and the
>case reinstated. (Which is why a waiver of your right to appeal is
>sometimes included as a condition of a plea bargain.)

It's not sometimes included, its ALL THE TIME included, you legal
ignoramus.

In article >,
Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS > wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 02:25:26 GMT, Larry > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS > wrote:
> >
> >> On 28 Sep 2006 21:42:03 -0700, "
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >Larry wrote:
> >> >> Well, plea-bargains can get appealed too.
> >> >> But after a conviction by jury, there are are only retrials if there was
> >> >> 1) a conviction and 2) reversible error.
> >> >> What makes you think there will be more reversible errors if there is
> >> >> less plea-bargaining?
> >> >
> >> > Very simple; the guy who gets a plea bargain gets a lighter sentence
> >> >- and thus has much less incentive to ever appeal in the first place.
> >>
> >>
> >> Hey stupid. If you accept a plea bargain you have no right to appeal.
> >
> >Hey stupid, you most certainly do.
> >
> >There are a number of issues you *always* have the right to appeal,
> >including: your competency to enter a plea, your right to a speedy
> >trial, the effectiveness of the counsel you received, and the
> >jurisdiction of the court to hear your case.
> >
> >There are also other issues that you may be able to appeal, depending on
> >the posture of the case at the time of the plea. For example, suppose a
> >suppression hearing is held in a drug case and the drugs are ruled
> >admissible. Since you know they will be used against you, you plea
> >guilty. You can still appeal the judge's ruling that the search was
> >legal, and if you win the appeal, your conviction is reversed and the
> >case reinstated. (Which is why a waiver of your right to appeal is
> >sometimes included as a condition of a plea bargain.)
>
> It's not sometimes included, its ALL THE TIME included, you legal
> ignoramus.

Not in New York it isn't, you legal ignoramus.

In fact, some times the prosecutor specifically allows the defendant to
appeal on a particular issue, if is an unsettled area of the law.

I am a prosecutor in New York, and I've handled over 1100 cases in my
career, over 100 of which were DWI. So I know what I'm talking about.

Larry wrote:
> You have an appeal as of right in NY. Virtually everyone who is
> convicted of anything appeals, regardless of sentence. There's nothing
> to lose.

You have appeal as of right here, too - but virtually nil percent of
convicted defendants appeal. That's because most all of them either
plea-bargained or pled to original charge, got nil sentence - and
aren't too unhappy with their sentences. If they walk out of court
smiling, they just don't appeal.
I had one court-appointed case facing 55 years on felonies and
misdemeanors (forgery and bad checks) who I pled down to three years
probation on misdemeanors - and she walked out of court with a smile.
Think she was obsessed with her right to appeal that?

No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com

Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS wrote:
> On 25 Sep 2006 18:17:47 -0700, "
> > wrote:
>
>
>> I guarantee "no plea bargains" won't work. It will make every
>>drunk-driving arrestee whose prior record has him facing mandatory jail
>>or other harsh mandatory punishment hold out for a trial - and make him
>>hire a lawyer specializing in all-out defenses of such cases. And -
>>having both prosecuted and defended criminals from my law-school days
>>in the early 1980s through lawyer days in the late 1990s - I can tell
>>you that the defense always has the advantage in that situation.
>>
>
>
>
> Unlike you, most americans don't believe in coddling killers.

Of course, MOST AMERICANS (as you say) differ greatly in their
definition of "killers"

I've driven drunk on numerous occasions. I openly admit that it was
WRONG, but I learned my lesson without being sent to jail for years. In
fact, it would have hurt society (cost them hundreds of thousands of
dollars) to imprison me.

I NEVER injured anyone, let alone killed anyone. The only damage I ever
caused was to my own vehicle, and I paid for the repairs myself - didn't
use my insurance even though I had it.

Now, just to **** you off, the most egregious thing I ever did while
drunk behind the wheel? I pulled up to the gates of an apartment
complex right next to mine and found them closed, realizing about the
same moment that I was about 50 feet short of the gates I had meant to
pull up to.

But wait, there's more!

Not only had I pulled up to the wrong gates, they were "Exit Only" gates
- even if I had a card to get in it would have done me no good.

But wait - here comes the REALLY good part.

As I was pulling in, 2 police cars were pulling out. For a brief
moment, my drunk ass was face to face with a police car on the other
side of the gate which I could not pull into even if I lived there.

So what did I do? I put it in reverse and let the 2 cop cars out and
quickly pulled in before the gate shut, then I parked and pretended like
I meant to pull into that apartment complex until I was sure they were
gone - then I drove home to the apartment complex right next door.

HAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHA


That was the worst thing I ever did - shall I tell you my other stories
about walking the line (field sobriety tests), falling asleep at the
wheel, having my rear tires shot out by gang-bangers, or blowing out the
2 driver's side tires after hitting the curb while driving home from a bar?

Come to think of it, blowing out 2 tires on the drivers side was
probably worse than the incident I described above - I had to rush to
make the yellow light and goddammit, 3 lanes just wasn't enough to
straighten my car out before I hit the curb.

To my credit, I remember doing it!

Then again, inadvertently doing a 180 in the middle of a street may have
been worse than either of those, but I don't rightly recall that
incident for sure, so maybe it never happened at all. I might have
dreamed that one - after all, could my Oldsmobuick even do a 180?

Bottom line is I only drive sober today and I didn't have to spend a
second in jail and I never injured anyone, including myself. All in
all, I think it's a pretty good record considering the number of times
I've driven wasted off my ass compared to the number of incidents I've had.

So now that I've learned my lesson and have seen enough of my friends in
jail and I now take cabs and rent hotel rooms if I think I may end up
too drunk to drive, do you still think I should be locked up?

Frankly, I think the sober driver who runs a red light is MUCH more
dangerous than I ever was behind the wheel.