ping Daniel Stern was Starving 95 Neon

Bill wrote:

> Sorry, Matt. I'm not going into corporate politics here. It was just time to
> go. I still think the product is a good product and I still love teaching,
> but now I teach for Volvo Penta, the marine propulsion segment of Volvo AB.
> I occasion this newsgroup, but I don't have a whole lot of time to answer a
> bunch of posts, so I pick a few every once in a while and answer them.

I was just curious.


> Bill
>
> And Matt, I think it was you that told me earlier that posting at the top
> was for newbies

Very likely, as it is. So why are you still doing it? Good teachers
should be good learners also! :-)

Even if bottom posting hadn't been a convention since the dawn of
ARPAnet, it simply makes sense. English writing people write and read
from the top down. Bottom posting maintains the chronology in the
direction we read. I'm amazed that otherwise logical people can't
figure this out.


Matt

Spite, maybe

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> Bill wrote:
>
>> Sorry, Matt. I'm not going into corporate politics here. It was just time
>> to go. I still think the product is a good product and I still love
>> teaching, but now I teach for Volvo Penta, the marine propulsion segment
>> of Volvo AB.
>> I occasion this newsgroup, but I don't have a whole lot of time to answer
>> a bunch of posts, so I pick a few every once in a while and answer them.
>
> I was just curious.
>
>
>> Bill
>>
>> And Matt, I think it was you that told me earlier that posting at the top
>> was for newbies
>
> Very likely, as it is. So why are you still doing it? Good teachers
> should be good learners also! :-)
>
> Even if bottom posting hadn't been a convention since the dawn of ARPAnet,
> it simply makes sense. English writing people write and read from the top
> down. Bottom posting maintains the chronology in the direction we read.
> I'm amazed that otherwise logical people can't figure this out.
>
>
> Matt
>

Spite, maybe

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> Bill wrote:
>
>> Sorry, Matt. I'm not going into corporate politics here. It was just time
>> to go. I still think the product is a good product and I still love
>> teaching, but now I teach for Volvo Penta, the marine propulsion segment
>> of Volvo AB.
>> I occasion this newsgroup, but I don't have a whole lot of time to answer
>> a bunch of posts, so I pick a few every once in a while and answer them.
>
> I was just curious.
>
>
>> Bill
>>
>> And Matt, I think it was you that told me earlier that posting at the top
>> was for newbies
>
> Very likely, as it is. So why are you still doing it? Good teachers
> should be good learners also! :-)
>
> Even if bottom posting hadn't been a convention since the dawn of ARPAnet,
> it simply makes sense. English writing people write and read from the top
> down. Bottom posting maintains the chronology in the direction we read.
> I'm amazed that otherwise logical people can't figure this out.
>
>
> Matt
>

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> Bill wrote:
>
>> Sorry, Matt. I'm not going into corporate politics here. It was just time
>> to go. I still think the product is a good product and I still love
>> teaching, but now I teach for Volvo Penta, the marine propulsion segment
>> of Volvo AB.
>> I occasion this newsgroup, but I don't have a whole lot of time to answer
>> a bunch of posts, so I pick a few every once in a while and answer them.
>
> I was just curious.
>
>
>> Bill
>>
>> And Matt, I think it was you that told me earlier that posting at the top
>> was for newbies
>
> Very likely, as it is. So why are you still doing it? Good teachers
> should be good learners also! :-)
>
> Even if bottom posting hadn't been a convention since the dawn of ARPAnet,
> it simply makes sense. English writing people write and read from the top
> down. Bottom posting maintains the chronology in the direction we read.
> I'm amazed that otherwise logical people can't figure this out.
>
>
> Matt
>

Then why is the Microsoft default in Outlook Express at the top ?

Bill

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> Bill wrote:
>
>> Sorry, Matt. I'm not going into corporate politics here. It was just time
>> to go. I still think the product is a good product and I still love
>> teaching, but now I teach for Volvo Penta, the marine propulsion segment
>> of Volvo AB.
>> I occasion this newsgroup, but I don't have a whole lot of time to answer
>> a bunch of posts, so I pick a few every once in a while and answer them.
>
> I was just curious.
>
>
>> Bill
>>
>> And Matt, I think it was you that told me earlier that posting at the top
>> was for newbies
>
> Very likely, as it is. So why are you still doing it? Good teachers
> should be good learners also! :-)
>
> Even if bottom posting hadn't been a convention since the dawn of ARPAnet,
> it simply makes sense. English writing people write and read from the top
> down. Bottom posting maintains the chronology in the direction we read.
> I'm amazed that otherwise logical people can't figure this out.
>
>
> Matt
>

Then why is the Microsoft default in Outlook Express at the top ?

Bill

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message

> Sorry, Dan. You are wrong on this one. All Power module/Logic module,
> SMEC, SBEC 1, 2 2A, 2B, SBEC3, 3A, and 3+'s and FCC controllers have all
> had clear food modes. That list covers all FWD vehicles from 83 1/2
> through 2001

Sorry, Matt, that may be what your book says, but in the real world, it's
not correct. None of my AA-bodies (2.5 TBI, 2.2 Turbo III, 3.0) has/had a
clear-flood mode, nor does my '89 D100 (5.2 TBI).

Next time you're in Toronto, stop by and you can show me this clear-flood
mode that doesn't exist. Perhaps it's only *my individual* cars that don't
have it, hmmm?

DS

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message

> Sorry, Dan. You are wrong on this one. All Power module/Logic module,
> SMEC, SBEC 1, 2 2A, 2B, SBEC3, 3A, and 3+'s and FCC controllers have all
> had clear food modes. That list covers all FWD vehicles from 83 1/2
> through 2001

Sorry, Matt, that may be what your book says, but in the real world, it's
not correct. None of my AA-bodies (2.5 TBI, 2.2 Turbo III, 3.0) has/had a
clear-flood mode, nor does my '89 D100 (5.2 TBI).

Next time you're in Toronto, stop by and you can show me this clear-flood
mode that doesn't exist. Perhaps it's only *my individual* cars that don't
have it, hmmm?

DS

(This should've been directed at Bill Sprague, not Matt Whiting -- sorry,
Matt)

> Sorry, Dan. You are wrong on this one. All Power module/Logic module,
> SMEC, SBEC 1, 2 2A, 2B, SBEC3, 3A, and 3+'s and FCC controllers have all
> had clear food modes. That list covers all FWD vehicles from 83 1/2
> through 2001

Sorry, Bill, that may be what your training manual says, but in the real
world, it's not correct. None of my SBEC AA-bodies ('91 and '92 2.5 TBI,
'91 2.2 Turbo III, '92 3.0, '92 2.5 Turbo II) has/had a clear-flood mode,
nor does my SMEC '89 D100 (5.2 TBI).

> open the throttle and then crank the engine. If the engine isn't
> flooded, then this action will cause a no start condition.

On all the cars I've listed, fully opening the throttle and then cranking
the engine causes the engine to start and immediately rev, whether the
throttle is opened before or after the ignition key is turned to "on".
Clear-flood *does not* exist on these cars.

I've rented Ford products with the clear-flood mode, but none of my
Chrysler products have had it. Next time you're in Toronto, stop by and
you can show me this clear-flood mode that doesn't really exist. Perhaps
it's only *my individual* cars that don't have it, hmmm?

DS

(This should've been directed at Bill Sprague, not Matt Whiting -- sorry,
Matt)

> Sorry, Dan. You are wrong on this one. All Power module/Logic module,
> SMEC, SBEC 1, 2 2A, 2B, SBEC3, 3A, and 3+'s and FCC controllers have all
> had clear food modes. That list covers all FWD vehicles from 83 1/2
> through 2001

Sorry, Bill, that may be what your training manual says, but in the real
world, it's not correct. None of my SBEC AA-bodies ('91 and '92 2.5 TBI,
'91 2.2 Turbo III, '92 3.0, '92 2.5 Turbo II) has/had a clear-flood mode,
nor does my SMEC '89 D100 (5.2 TBI).

> open the throttle and then crank the engine. If the engine isn't
> flooded, then this action will cause a no start condition.

On all the cars I've listed, fully opening the throttle and then cranking
the engine causes the engine to start and immediately rev, whether the
throttle is opened before or after the ignition key is turned to "on".
Clear-flood *does not* exist on these cars.

I've rented Ford products with the clear-flood mode, but none of my
Chrysler products have had it. Next time you're in Toronto, stop by and
you can show me this clear-flood mode that doesn't really exist. Perhaps
it's only *my individual* cars that don't have it, hmmm?

DS

"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
.umich.edu...
> (This should've been directed at Bill Sprague, not Matt Whiting -- sorry,
> Matt)
>
>> Sorry, Dan. You are wrong on this one. All Power module/Logic module,
>> SMEC, SBEC 1, 2 2A, 2B, SBEC3, 3A, and 3+'s and FCC controllers have all
>> had clear food modes. That list covers all FWD vehicles from 83 1/2
>> through 2001
>
> Sorry, Bill, that may be what your training manual says, but in the real
> world, it's not correct. None of my SBEC AA-bodies ('91 and '92 2.5 TBI,
> '91 2.2 Turbo III, '92 3.0, '92 2.5 Turbo II) has/had a clear-flood mode,
> nor does my SMEC '89 D100 (5.2 TBI).
>
>> open the throttle and then crank the engine. If the engine isn't
>> flooded, then this action will cause a no start condition.
>
> On all the cars I've listed, fully opening the throttle and then cranking
> the engine causes the engine to start and immediately rev, whether the
> throttle is opened before or after the ignition key is turned to "on".
> Clear-flood *does not* exist on these cars.
>
> I've rented Ford products with the clear-flood mode, but none of my
> Chrysler products have had it. Next time you're in Toronto, stop by and
> you can show me this clear-flood mode that doesn't really exist. Perhaps
> it's only *my individual* cars that don't have it, hmmm?
>
> DS

Dan,

Your observation is correct, I did forget about another strategy on most of
those older models that would make the clear flood mode unobservable without
a scan tool. Most of those models you mentioned had a priming pulse from the
injectors at key on. So if you didn't actually have a flooded engine, the
priming pulse would give you enough fuel to cause the RPM to get past the
start to run transfer and then override the clear flood mode because,
obviously the engine wasn't flooded. (with the 3.0L, the injectors leak
enough that clear flood will almost always be overridden)

I do get to Toronto about once a year on my way to Orillia. I will let you
know if I get up there this winter or next spring.

Best regards,
Bill