'65 fastback and engine size

So I've been working on rebuilding a '65 fastback for the last three years.
Haven't gotten that far yet, but I finally have the money and time to really
get into it.

Anyway, I was just thinking, just how big an engine can I cram in to the
engine compartment? I was looking at the ford racing 514 CID crate --
http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/3505...acket-Race.htm
which claims to fit in fox chassis.

Then again, can I fit something bigger? If I'm gonna build it, I might as
well build it huge:-P

japhar81 wrote:
> So I've been working on rebuilding a '65 fastback for the last three years.
> Haven't gotten that far yet, but I finally have the money and time to really
> get into it.
>
> Anyway, I was just thinking, just how big an engine can I cram in to the
> engine compartment? I was looking at the ford racing 514 CID crate --
> http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/3505...acket-Race.htm
> which claims to fit in fox chassis.

That claim is for '79-93 Fox cars. In a '65, you cannot fit a
385-series engine in there without serious chassis mods, and hacking at
the shock towers. I'd go SB stroker if I were you. The 351W can be
bored and stroked to 427ci. If you want it to raise serious hell, stick
a blower on top of it. Please do extensive homework on builders and
drivetrains before you drop that kinda dough.

Also, with those power levels, be sure to get a four-point rollcage,
GOOD subframe connectors, export brace and monte carlo bar to help the
thing from twisting up. I'd do most of that with a 427 stroker in a '65
anyway. The '65 chassis just weren't as strong as the next seven model
years.

> Then again, can I fit something bigger? If I'm gonna build it, I might as
> well build it huge:-P

How deep are your pockets? As my custom builder friend said, "anything
is -possible-".

>
>


--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

I figured the power would torque the thing to hell, I was going to have the
entire chassis reinforced on top of the subframe connectors (I've got a shop
doing the frame work, I'm more interested in the putting stuff together
piece of the build).

As for the rollcage, I considered it, but Im not seeing how I could easily
fit one, and my 6'6 self in the-P Guess I'll need to figure that out
somehow.

I'll take a look at the engine, I'm not feeling the desire to shoehorn
something thats too big. And you're right, I can stick a blower on there.

"Wound Up" > wrote in message
...
> japhar81 wrote:
>> So I've been working on rebuilding a '65 fastback for the last three
>> years. Haven't gotten that far yet, but I finally have the money and time
>> to really get into it.
>>
>> Anyway, I was just thinking, just how big an engine can I cram in to the
>> engine compartment? I was looking at the ford racing 514 CID crate --
>> http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/3505...acket-Race.htm
>> which claims to fit in fox chassis.
>
> That claim is for '79-93 Fox cars. In a '65, you cannot fit a 385-series
> engine in there without serious chassis mods, and hacking at the shock
> towers. I'd go SB stroker if I were you. The 351W can be bored and
> stroked to 427ci. If you want it to raise serious hell, stick a blower on
> top of it. Please do extensive homework on builders and drivetrains
> before you drop that kinda dough.
>
> Also, with those power levels, be sure to get a four-point rollcage, GOOD
> subframe connectors, export brace and monte carlo bar to help the thing
> from twisting up. I'd do most of that with a 427 stroker in a '65 anyway.
> The '65 chassis just weren't as strong as the next seven model years.
>
>> Then again, can I fit something bigger? If I'm gonna build it, I might as
>> well build it huge:-P
>
> How deep are your pockets? As my custom builder friend said, "anything
> is -possible-".
>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Wound Up
> ThunderSnake #65
>

consider adding convertible torque boxes tothe car also ford did it in later
years. Also a cage with a swing away door opening, get a lower or thiner
seat (racing bucket) to get closer to the floor. Or perhaps build your own
"guerny bubble" into the roof

oh god, no bubble, please. that just kills the lines IMO. The racing buckets
arent a bad idea though.


"walt peifer" > wrote in message
. ..
> consider adding convertible torque boxes tothe car also ford did it in
> later years. Also a cage with a swing away door opening, get a lower or
> thiner seat (racing bucket) to get closer to the floor. Or perhaps build
> your own "guerny bubble" into the roof
>

japhar81 wrote:
> I figured the power would torque the thing to hell, I was going to
have the
> entire chassis reinforced on top of the subframe connectors (I've got
a shop
> doing the frame work, I'm more interested in the putting stuff
together
> piece of the build).

A '65 Mustang doesn't have a separate frame. Its "frame" consists of
boxed sheetmetal running down each side. To get an idea of its
torsional rigidity, hold an empty Sunshine saltines cracker box at each
end and twist. Frame connectors help alot. A four or six point
rollcage on top of that is better. I put a six point and frame
connectors in my kids' '65 fb. Last Saturday I was jacking up the
front end, using a floor jack on the pinch weld seam just like the
owners manual says, and both wheels came off the ground, front and
rear. You could jack an unmodified Stang all the way up with the floor
jack and the rear wheel would not come off the ground. Also, the rear
seat in this car is still accessible to me (5' 9" 160 lbs 51 yrs old).

Here are some pix I took to show the seat belt mounting arrangement,
but they also show a bit of the rollcage.

http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/dscn0116.jpg
http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/dscn0114.jpg
http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/dscn0115.jpg

This cage is not NHRA legal for a 10 second car, which is not a problem
for me (not by a LONG shot) but should be for you if you're planning on
running a 514 or a blown 427.

> As for the rollcage, I considered it, but Im not seeing how I could
easily
> fit one, and my 6'6 self in the-P Guess I'll need to figure that
out
> somehow.

A four point won't get in your way at all. If you use doglegs for the
side bars, like on my kids' car, a six point is not in the way either.
But if you go NHRA legal, it might be a problem for a 6'6" guy. You
can get in, but you might need a headliner handhold (or an assistant)
to get out.
>
> I'll take a look at the engine, I'm not feeling the desire to
shoehorn
> something thats too big. And you're right, I can stick a blower on
there.

Engine displacement is not directly related to engine size. The 281
ci Mustang engine of today is bigger on the outside than a 514 ci 385
series motor.

You can fit a 385 series in a '65 if you trim the shocktowers, just
like they did with the '69 and '70 Boss 429's (also a 385 series, with
even bulkier heads). But you'll have to get smaller diameter springs.
This means coil overs. There are three sources: Revelation Racing
Supplies, Global West, and Total Control Products. They're not cheap.
TCP has had delivery problems and was sold to new ownership, and it's
not clear if the problems are resolved. RRS is an Aussie brand that's
only been in the States for about a year. Global West only just came
out with the coil overs, and last time I looked did not even have them
on their web site. In fact, they might just be a Web rumor.

There's also Fatman Fabrications with a kit to adapt the Fox Mustang
McPherson struts to the classic Stang. Also not cheap.

Finally, there are the Mustang II shock tower eliminator kits, but
these are for the cruise and car show only crowd. Heidt's makes two
kits, and Rod & Custom Motorsports makes one.

So the only limit to putting a 385 series into a '65 is your wallet.

180 Out
TS 28

Thanks for the info, time to google some of the stuff you mentioned. When I
said I've got a shop doing the framework, they're reinforcing the boxed
sheetmetal with something a bit more solid. And theyre going to add
connectors once i get to that point.

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> japhar81 wrote:
>> I figured the power would torque the thing to hell, I was going to
> have the
>> entire chassis reinforced on top of the subframe connectors (I've got
> a shop
>> doing the frame work, I'm more interested in the putting stuff
> together
>> piece of the build).
>
> A '65 Mustang doesn't have a separate frame. Its "frame" consists of
> boxed sheetmetal running down each side. To get an idea of its
> torsional rigidity, hold an empty Sunshine saltines cracker box at each
> end and twist. Frame connectors help alot. A four or six point
> rollcage on top of that is better. I put a six point and frame
> connectors in my kids' '65 fb. Last Saturday I was jacking up the
> front end, using a floor jack on the pinch weld seam just like the
> owners manual says, and both wheels came off the ground, front and
> rear. You could jack an unmodified Stang all the way up with the floor
> jack and the rear wheel would not come off the ground. Also, the rear
> seat in this car is still accessible to me (5' 9" 160 lbs 51 yrs old).
>
> Here are some pix I took to show the seat belt mounting arrangement,
> but they also show a bit of the rollcage.
>
> http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/dscn0116.jpg
> http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/dscn0114.jpg
> http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/dscn0115.jpg
>
> This cage is not NHRA legal for a 10 second car, which is not a problem
> for me (not by a LONG shot) but should be for you if you're planning on
> running a 514 or a blown 427.
>
>> As for the rollcage, I considered it, but Im not seeing how I could
> easily
>> fit one, and my 6'6 self in the-P Guess I'll need to figure that
> out
>> somehow.
>
> A four point won't get in your way at all. If you use doglegs for the
> side bars, like on my kids' car, a six point is not in the way either.
> But if you go NHRA legal, it might be a problem for a 6'6" guy. You
> can get in, but you might need a headliner handhold (or an assistant)
> to get out.
>>
>> I'll take a look at the engine, I'm not feeling the desire to
> shoehorn
>> something thats too big. And you're right, I can stick a blower on
> there.
>
> Engine displacement is not directly related to engine size. The 281
> ci Mustang engine of today is bigger on the outside than a 514 ci 385
> series motor.
>
> You can fit a 385 series in a '65 if you trim the shocktowers, just
> like they did with the '69 and '70 Boss 429's (also a 385 series, with
> even bulkier heads). But you'll have to get smaller diameter springs.
> This means coil overs. There are three sources: Revelation Racing
> Supplies, Global West, and Total Control Products. They're not cheap.
> TCP has had delivery problems and was sold to new ownership, and it's
> not clear if the problems are resolved. RRS is an Aussie brand that's
> only been in the States for about a year. Global West only just came
> out with the coil overs, and last time I looked did not even have them
> on their web site. In fact, they might just be a Web rumor.
>
> There's also Fatman Fabrications with a kit to adapt the Fox Mustang
> McPherson struts to the classic Stang. Also not cheap.
>
> Finally, there are the Mustang II shock tower eliminator kits, but
> these are for the cruise and car show only crowd. Heidt's makes two
> kits, and Rod & Custom Motorsports makes one.
>
> So the only limit to putting a 385 series into a '65 is your wallet.
>
> 180 Out
> TS 28
>

Forget the uncomfortable racing buckets. If you're going to reinforce the
frame then you can have this done easily. The seat boxes can be removed at
the spot welds, cut and rebent with a box and pan brake, and welded back in
the car. This will lower your seats. look it up at this website.
www.mustangsplus.com . The owner is 6'5" and he does this to all his cars.
They also have and awsome, inexpensive chassis strengthening kit that is
stronger than subframe connectors. It's strong enough to allow someone to
cut off the roof if they wanted to make a roadster out of a coupe. People
have been installing th 4.2 modular. and cobra engines in earlier cars. They
are as big or bigger in dimensions than a big block 385 series. See what
they're doing for clearance. I have the same idea to install a 460 in my '70
fastback. Much easier for me though as it fits right in with no mods. I'm
gonna call it my Boss 460 and make it look like a boss.

--
Mark C. Jack of all trades, master of none. (well, maybe a couple)

I r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d

http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/dscn0116.jpg
http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/dscn0114.jpg
http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/dscn0115.jpg



Nice clean install.

--
Mark C. Jack of all trades, master of none. (well, maybe a couple)

I r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d

I rather like the way that looks..

"Mark C." > wrote in message
...
>
> http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/dscn0116.jpg
> http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/dscn0114.jpg
> http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/dscn0115.jpg
>
>
>
> Nice clean install.
>
> --
> Mark C. Jack of all trades, master of none. (well, maybe a couple)
>
> I r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
>
>
>
>
>
>