synthetic oil for 1970 Eldorado; what grade?

Were I to use synthetic (Mobil-1) oil in a 1970 Cadillac
Eldorado [500 CI, 8.2 L, 550 lb-ft, 400 hP], which
grade would be best? The car has 51000 miles on it.
Is used approx. 2000 miles/year presently, though
hoping to take it on some lengthy (1500+ miles) trips
in near future. Car sees somewhat more use in hot
weather than cold, though is driven minimally every
other weekend for an hour in winter also. Largely
highway miles.

Would 15W-50 be the right grade? Or should I stick to
the more common 10W-30? Right now I use regular
(non-synthetic) 10W-40. Please advise.
Thanks in advance.

"F. Baker" > wrote
> Were I to use synthetic (Mobil-1) oil in a 1970 Cadillac
> Eldorado [500 CI, 8.2 L, 550 lb-ft, 400 hP], which
> grade would be best? The car has 51000 miles on it.

I am a big fan of synthetic oil......but not in this case.
The different chemical structure is likely to find tiny places to leak than
conventional oil didn't.
The different additives might stir up sludge that wasn't a problem before.

>
> Would 15W-50 be the right grade? Or should I stick to
> the more common 10W-30? Right now I use regular
> (non-synthetic) 10W-40. Please advise.
> Thanks in advance.

My advice is to start using conventional oil designated for "high mileage"
or "older" vehicles.
Same brand that you have been using, if they have a high mileage variety.
It has special additives to rejuvenate old seals. 10W40 sounds about right.

I have a 1977 GMC pickup with about 50K miles on it.
Using the high mileage oil has cut my oil consumption about in half (down to
an insignificant amount).

What is your goal in switching to synthetic?

With a car this old (even though relatively low mileage) I don't see much
reason
to go to synthetic, but then I am not a staunch fan of synthetics anyhow.

Just depends on how fast you want to clean it up off the ground. The
thinner oil will run out of all the seals really fast, the thicker will
only run out really fast when it gets hot, it will slow down when cold.

The trouble is synthetic will clean up all the sludge build up on all
the seals and gaskets and they 'will' start leaking on something that
old because this build up helps seal, so unless you just totally rebuilt
the engine with all new seals and gaskets, I certainly would not
recommend switching to synthetic.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

"F. Baker" wrote:
>
> Were I to use synthetic (Mobil-1) oil in a 1970 Cadillac
> Eldorado [500 CI, 8.2 L, 550 lb-ft, 400 hP], which
> grade would be best? The car has 51000 miles on it.
> Is used approx. 2000 miles/year presently, though
> hoping to take it on some lengthy (1500+ miles) trips
> in near future. Car sees somewhat more use in hot
> weather than cold, though is driven minimally every
> other weekend for an hour in winter also. Largely
> highway miles.
>
> Would 15W-50 be the right grade? Or should I stick to
> the more common 10W-30? Right now I use regular
> (non-synthetic) 10W-40. Please advise.
> Thanks in advance.
>
>

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005, Mike Romain wrote:

> Just depends on how fast you want to clean it up off the ground. The
> thinner oil will run out of all the seals really fast, the thicker will
> only run out really fast when it gets hot, it will slow down when cold.
> The trouble is synthetic will clean up all the sludge build up on all
> the seals and gaskets and they 'will' start leaking on something that
> old because this build up helps seal, so unless you just totally rebuilt
> the engine with all new seals and gaskets, I certainly would not
> recommend switching to synthetic.

Mike, shame on you. I know for a fact you're not ignorant enough to
believe this. This bull**** has been floating around since synthetic oil
first hit the market. Like most good piles of bull****, it has at its core
a kernel of truth: The first synthetic oils available were 5W20 and 5W30,
which were very much thinner than the conventional oils widely used at the
time (1970s). So, existing small leaks leaked more of the thinner oil, and
the myth that synthetic oil causes or worsens leaks was born. Over the
years, handwavers added all kinds of nonsense about synthetic oil
dissolving sludge that helps the engine seal, etc.

What you said above is just plain incorrect. Engines that leak
conventional oil will leak synthetic oil. Engines that don't leak
conventional oil will not leak synthetic oil. That's sound theory, backed
up with years of personal experience, and it trumps handwaving and
tongue-clucking and pseudoscientific baloney.

To the original poster: You should have no trouble using Mobil-1 in your
Cadillac, though it's hardly necessary. Even the cheapest conventional
engine oil available today is VASTLY, HUGELY better than even the best
engine oil available when your car was new. If you do go ahead and use
Mobil-1, 10w30 or 15w40 would doubtless be fine.

DS

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005, Ken Abrams wrote:

> My advice is to start using conventional oil designated for "high mileage"
> or "older" vehicles.

This is poor advice. The extra seal-swelling agents added to "high mileage
oil" give a short-term reduction in oil consumption due to worn seals, but
in the long run the swollen seals wear even more quickly and oil
consumption increases.

> It has special additives to rejuvenate old seals.

Incorrect. It has additives to SWELL seals. This does not "rejuvenate"
them.

Mike Romain > wrote in article
>...

> The trouble is synthetic will clean up all the sludge build up on all
> the seals and gaskets and they 'will' start leaking on something that
> old because this build up helps seal, so unless you just totally rebuilt
> the engine with all new seals and gaskets, I certainly would not
> recommend switching to synthetic.
>


I think it is a false assumption to believe that every engine of age is
loaded up with sludge.....let alone believing that synthetic additives
somehow have the power to dislodge any sludge that mineral oil additives
had not.

I sold an Astro van with a 4.3 to my cousin, who then decided to rebuild
the engine since it had over 205,000 miles on it.

When he pulled the rocker covers, he called me and asked what type of oil I
had been running.

I told him that I always ran whatever API-rated oil was on sale, and I
changed oil and filter at 3,000- 3,500 miles...and that the oil that was in
the van when I sold it to him was $9.99-per-case, 10W-40, "Certified" brand
oil from Sam's Club......

......why was he asking?

He said you could run a white glove over the top of the head - under the
rocker cover.....it was THAT clean.

Since the engine was NOT burning any measurable amount of oil, he put on a
new rocker cover gasket, and is still running the van approaching a
quarter-million miles - albeit measured in Canadian kilometres these days -
using the same maintenance schedule.

So, the presence of sludge isn't necessarily a foregone conclusion for
engines over 50K, 100K .....or even 200 K for that matter.


--
Bob Paulin - R.A.C.E. <><
Race Car Chassis Analysis & Setup Services
Chassis Blueprinting Services (as in engine blueprinting)

"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
.umich.edu...

> > It has special additives to rejuvenate old seals.
>
> Incorrect. It has additives to SWELL seals. This does not "rejuvenate"
> them.

Well, at least Castrol claims they have effective conditioners.

You are right that formulators used to use solvents like xylene and others
to soften and swell seals, and this led to degradation. Some probably still
use them.

From the Castrol MSD, it would appear they are relying on polymer technology
to improve seal condition. Polymers of this type normally don't penetrate
the elastomers used in seals. Only time will tell how effective, or
destructive, they really are.

I guess I just haven't caught up with the times then. The only
experiences I have with the overpriced junk was to watch it turn engines
into pincushions back a few years ago.

Normal gasket seeps or wet spots that weren't enough to ever drip turned
into taps running bad.

If the OP does go for it, I sure would appreciate a follow up in a month
to see what happens....

The only time I dared to use it in any of my vehicles was just after a
rebuild of my t-case and tranny seals and then I only used a
semi-synthetic gear oil because they didn't sell any 'real' gear oil at
the local auto stores without the friction modifier that my T-5 sure
doesn't require.

Mike

"Daniel J. Stern" wrote:
>
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2005, Mike Romain wrote:
>
> > Just depends on how fast you want to clean it up off the ground. The
> > thinner oil will run out of all the seals really fast, the thicker will
> > only run out really fast when it gets hot, it will slow down when cold.
> > The trouble is synthetic will clean up all the sludge build up on all
> > the seals and gaskets and they 'will' start leaking on something that
> > old because this build up helps seal, so unless you just totally rebuilt
> > the engine with all new seals and gaskets, I certainly would not
> > recommend switching to synthetic.
>
> Mike, shame on you. I know for a fact you're not ignorant enough to
> believe this. This bull**** has been floating around since synthetic oil
> first hit the market. Like most good piles of bull****, it has at its core
> a kernel of truth: The first synthetic oils available were 5W20 and 5W30,
> which were very much thinner than the conventional oils widely used at the
> time (1970s). So, existing small leaks leaked more of the thinner oil, and
> the myth that synthetic oil causes or worsens leaks was born. Over the
> years, handwavers added all kinds of nonsense about synthetic oil
> dissolving sludge that helps the engine seal, etc.
>
> What you said above is just plain incorrect. Engines that leak
> conventional oil will leak synthetic oil. Engines that don't leak
> conventional oil will not leak synthetic oil. That's sound theory, backed
> up with years of personal experience, and it trumps handwaving and
> tongue-clucking and pseudoscientific baloney.
>
> To the original poster: You should have no trouble using Mobil-1 in your
> Cadillac, though it's hardly necessary. Even the cheapest conventional
> engine oil available today is VASTLY, HUGELY better than even the best
> engine oil available when your car was new. If you do go ahead and use
> Mobil-1, 10w30 or 15w40 would doubtless be fine.
>
> DS

"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote
> > My advice is to start using conventional oil designated for "high
mileage"
> > or "older" vehicles.
>
> This is poor advice. The extra seal-swelling agents added to "high mileage
> oil" give a short-term reduction in oil consumption due to worn seals, but
> in the long run the swollen seals wear even more quickly and oil
> consumption increases.
>
> > It has special additives to rejuvenate old seals.
>
> Incorrect. It has additives to SWELL seals. This does not "rejuvenate"
> them.
>

And in a previous reply:

> What you said above is just plain incorrect. Engines that leak
> conventional oil will leak synthetic oil. Engines that don't leak
> conventional oil will not leak synthetic oil. That's sound theory, backed
> up with years of personal experience, and it trumps handwaving and
> tongue-clucking and pseudoscientific baloney.

Well, EXCUSE me. Obviously you are an expert on everything!

The real experts recommend using the same brand and grade of oil all the
time.

My experience leads me to believe that synthetic WILL find leaks that
conventional oil does not.
The '95 Seville I had previously was changed over to Mobil 1 at about 30K
miles.
It immediately developed 3 small leaks that were not there before.
Coincidence? Maybe but I think not.

On the seals subject, what you say might be valid for a vehicle that does
not have appreciable seal wear or shrinkage.
Assuming that the additives swell the seals and they stay that way, this
makes up for excess clearance due to wear or shrinkage due to age. It is
true that seals that are tight will wear faster than ones that are loose and
leaking. This not a bad thing.

Your "bedside manner" stinks. Everyone who has an opinion different from
yours is not (necessarily) an idiot.
Even if they ARE, it is rude to point it out in public. (But somehow I
suspect you don't care)