Another jurisdiction that likes the "zipper"

Nate Nagel > wrote:
>
> Scott M. Kozel wrote:
>
> > There is no traffic circle (rotary) there today, just through traffic on
> > Pennsylvania Avenue, a ramp from the eastbound Southeast Freeway, and a
> > semi-directional ramp to the westbound Southeast Freeway.
> >
> > This aerial image shows it nicely --
> > http://terraserver.microsoft.com/ima...40&Y=21525&W=1
> >
> > I would be interested in seeing what the original configuration looked like.
>
> Sometimes a picture really *is* worth a thousand words...
>
> question, looks like there is a stretch of what I assume is the "circle"
> that only exists to connect Kentucky Ave. with the SE Freeway - but that
> section of the freeway is signed "emergency use and stadium traffic
> only" - IOW a basically useless road, seeing as there don't appear to be
> any buildings on it?

The 2-lane road connecting the freeway to the stadium, appears to have
no lines painted on it, and I zoomed in to the max. It has been a
number of years since the Redskins played there, and probably the road
hasn't been used since then, so perhaps the lines wore away.

> Also, what time of day were those images taken? I need to find out when
> that is and plan my commute accordingly

Based on the shadows, I'd say about 2:00 pm.

--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com

In article <1120598981.00cc3e25b420811f687c7bced26e1894@teran ews>, Nate Nagel wrote:

> http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel/ima.../DC_zipper.JPG

> PPS - amazingly enough, people were zippering quite nicely thank you!

That's nice. But the concept collaspes with the first MFFY driver or
enabler.

I've gotten to the point where I've learned that all road signs are
meaningless. In the chicago area these signs would be totally ignored.
There would be some on the ass of that black mitsu regardless.

Scott M. Kozel wrote:
> Nate Nagel > wrote:
>
>>Scott M. Kozel wrote:
>>
>>
>>>There is no traffic circle (rotary) there today, just through traffic on
>>>Pennsylvania Avenue, a ramp from the eastbound Southeast Freeway, and a
>>>semi-directional ramp to the westbound Southeast Freeway.
>>>
>>>This aerial image shows it nicely --
>>>http://terraserver.microsoft.com/ima...40&Y=21525&W=1
>>>
>>>I would be interested in seeing what the original configuration looked like.
>>
>>Sometimes a picture really *is* worth a thousand words...
>>
>>question, looks like there is a stretch of what I assume is the "circle"
>>that only exists to connect Kentucky Ave. with the SE Freeway - but that
>>section of the freeway is signed "emergency use and stadium traffic
>>only" - IOW a basically useless road, seeing as there don't appear to be
>>any buildings on it?
>
>
> The 2-lane road connecting the freeway to the stadium, appears to have
> no lines painted on it, and I zoomed in to the max. It has been a
> number of years since the Redskins played there, and probably the road
> hasn't been used since then, so perhaps the lines wore away.

But hasn't DC United been playing there for years (not that that's a big
draw) as well as the new Nationals?

>
>
>>Also, what time of day were those images taken? I need to find out when
>>that is and plan my commute accordingly
>
>
> Based on the shadows, I'd say about 2:00 pm.

Hmm. Guess I need a better job then, or a less obervant boss

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Nate Nagel > wrote:
>
> Scott M. Kozel wrote:
>
> > The 2-lane road connecting the freeway to the stadium, appears to have
> > no lines painted on it, and I zoomed in to the max. It has been a
> > number of years since the Redskins played there, and probably the road
> > hasn't been used since then, so perhaps the lines wore away.
>
> But hasn't DC United been playing there for years (not that that's a big
> draw) as well as the new Nationals?

The baseball Nationals just began playing there a couple months ago.
Dunno whether their per-game attendance is anywhere near what the
Redskins had, given that a baseball season has 10 times more games.
Dunno whether Nationals games utilize that road.

--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com

Scott M. Kozel wrote:
> Nate Nagel wrote:
>
>>Scott M. Kozel wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The 2-lane road connecting the freeway to the stadium, appears to have
>>>no lines painted on it, and I zoomed in to the max. It has been a
>>>number of years since the Redskins played there, and probably the road
>>>hasn't been used since then, so perhaps the lines wore away.
>>
>>But hasn't DC United been playing there for years (not that that's a big
>>draw) as well as the new Nationals?
>
>
> The baseball Nationals just began playing there a couple months ago.
> Dunno whether their per-game attendance is anywhere near what the
> Redskins had, given that a baseball season has 10 times more games.
> Dunno whether Nationals games utilize that road.
>

The road is used for United games. Don't think it is open for the Nats
games. Just FYI, the per game attendance is near 33,000 per game and
rising.


--
All the best,
Geoff

If you look carefully on the aerial photo, there is a residential street
that follows the perimeter of the highway ramp. There are actually two cars
driving on it in the photo. This is the actual Barney Circle, which you can
see feeds both 17th St. into the neighborhood to the north, as well as onto
Pennsylvania Ave. at the west end of the roadway.

My obnoxiously large, but sufficiently detailed 1960 Official DC map shows a
quarter circle between 9:00 (K St.) and 12:00 (17th St.), with Pa. Ave at
10:00, where it ends now. It does not show the circle continuing to the
east of 17th St. as it does now (even though it doesn't seem to lead
anywhere. Red dashed lines are superimposed to show where the new freeway
portions are proposed/under construction.

Why would any jurisdiction issue a highway map that is so big, you would
have to get out of your car and spread it out on the ground in order to be
able to read it? This sucker's 3 1/2 wide and 4 1/2 feet long! One would
think it was a wall map, but it is conveniently folded to fit in your glove
compartment.

"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in message
...
>
> There is no traffic circle (rotary) there today, just through traffic on
> Pennsylvania Avenue, a ramp from the eastbound Southeast Freeway, and a
> semi-directional ramp to the westbound Southeast Freeway.
>
> This aerial image shows it nicely --
>
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/ima...40&Y=21525&W=1
>
> I would be interested in seeing what the original configuration looked
> like.
>
> --
> Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
> Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com
> Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com

Mark wrote:
> If you look carefully on the aerial photo, there is a residential street
> that follows the perimeter of the highway ramp. There are actually two cars
> driving on it in the photo. This is the actual Barney Circle, which you can
> see feeds both 17th St. into the neighborhood to the north, as well as onto
> Pennsylvania Ave. at the west end of the roadway.
>
> My obnoxiously large, but sufficiently detailed 1960 Official DC map shows a
> quarter circle between 9:00 (K St.) and 12:00 (17th St.), with Pa. Ave at
> 10:00, where it ends now. It does not show the circle continuing to the
> east of 17th St. as it does now (even though it doesn't seem to lead
> anywhere. Red dashed lines are superimposed to show where the new freeway
> portions are proposed/under construction.
>
> Why would any jurisdiction issue a highway map that is so big, you would
> have to get out of your car and spread it out on the ground in order to be
> able to read it? This sucker's 3 1/2 wide and 4 1/2 feet long! One would
> think it was a wall map, but it is conveniently folded to fit in your glove
> compartment.

Thanks, I think I "get it" now. I guess that's just a mystery for the
ages, why a feature called "Barney Circle" really is more of a
semicircle, I guess I was expecting something more like the other
circles elsewhere in DC. But having grown up near Pittsburgh surely I
couldn't expect the roads to make perfect sense?

nate

Scott M. Kozel wrote:

>
> This aerial image shows it nicely --
> http://terraserver.microsoft.com/ima...40&Y=21525&W=1
>
> I would be interested in seeing what the original configuration looked
> like.

If you zoom out a step or two and follow what looks like a rail line
east and then slightly northeast from the end of the SE/SW freeway you
can trace the original route of the Barney Circle Freeway. The Barney
Circle Freeway would have connected the SE/SW Freeway with
DC295/Keniworth Avenue and provided a freeway route downtown for those
coming in from the north. In the aerial photos note the stub ramp on
the DC 295 bridge over the rail lines that would connect to the Barney
Circle Freeway had it been built.

Mike



>
> --
> Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
> Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com
> Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com

Brent P wrote:
> In article <1120598981.00cc3e25b420811f687c7bced26e1894@teran ews>, Nate Nagel wrote:
>
>
>>http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel/ima.../DC_zipper.JPG
>
>
>>PPS - amazingly enough, people were zippering quite nicely thank you!

They have them around here too, work amazingly well. First time I saw
one I thought that will *never* work, but I was wrong... It appears once
enough people do it, the rest will follow.

>
>
> That's nice. But the concept collaspes with the first MFFY driver or
> enabler.

Nope, I let two people ahead of me today at one of these merges, no-one
got upset.


>
> I've gotten to the point where I've learned that all road signs are
> meaningless. In the chicago area these signs would be totally ignored.

LOL.

> There would be some on the ass of that black mitsu regardless.
>
>
>
>
Ulf

In article >, Ulf wrote:

>> That's nice. But the concept collaspes with the first MFFY driver or
>> enabler.
>
> Nope, I let two people ahead of me today at one of these merges, no-one
> got upset.

How would you know? Most people don't bother honking. I don't. But I
still don't like enablers.


>> I've gotten to the point where I've learned that all road signs are
>> meaningless. In the chicago area these signs would be totally ignored.

> LOL.

It's completely true. I realized this once seeing semis and box trucks in
the slip lanes of 90/94 became common.