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Driving Without A Thermostat



 
 
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  #21  
Old February 10th 05, 04:23 AM
RV
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:04:38 GMT, Anthony >
wrote:

>"Bruce Chang" > wrote in
.com:
>
>
>> As far as I understand, exhaust gasses are routed back into the intake
>> to reduce NOx, not to heat up the intake. The intake air isn't
>> diluted with exhaust gasses until the engine has started to warm up
>> anyhow.
>>

>Actually, IIRC, on newer engines, they route the exhaust gas back in to
>help warm up the engine and fire off the cat faster.


Sorry cant be done, what you are proposing is a perpetual motion
machine
Exhaust gas that combussts to heat up exhaust gases.
But Exhaust gas doesnt combust

You can heat the intake mixture with exhaust via heat exchange to
increase the intake temp, but no by mixing exhauist with intake.

IF you mix exhaust gas with the intake air there will be less
combustion heat, that less_heat, thus the reason it is used to reduce
peak burning temps for reducing NOx emmissions.

Read again, that is done by mixing exhaust gas with the intake to
"cool" the combustion.
You cant heat the exhaust componenerts by coolling the combustion.

Ads
  #22  
Old February 10th 05, 04:29 AM
Lawrence Glickman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:23:06 +1100, RV > wrote:

>On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:04:38 GMT, Anthony >
>wrote:
>
>>"Bruce Chang" > wrote in
y.com:
>>
>>
>>> As far as I understand, exhaust gasses are routed back into the intake
>>> to reduce NOx, not to heat up the intake. The intake air isn't
>>> diluted with exhaust gasses until the engine has started to warm up
>>> anyhow.
>>>

>>Actually, IIRC, on newer engines, they route the exhaust gas back in to
>>help warm up the engine and fire off the cat faster.

>
>Sorry cant be done, what you are proposing is a perpetual motion
>machine
>Exhaust gas that combussts to heat up exhaust gases.
>But Exhaust gas doesnt combust
>
>You can heat the intake mixture with exhaust via heat exchange to
>increase the intake temp, but no by mixing exhauist with intake.
>
>IF you mix exhaust gas with the intake air there will be less
>combustion heat, that less_heat, thus the reason it is used to reduce
>peak burning temps for reducing NOx emmissions.
>
>Read again, that is done by mixing exhaust gas with the intake to
>"cool" the combustion.
>You cant heat the exhaust componenerts by coolling the combustion.


What do you think
Exhaust Gas Recirculation

means ?

Why do car engineers do it?

  #23  
Old February 10th 05, 05:33 AM
RV
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 21:29:24 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
> wrote:

>On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:23:06 +1100, RV > wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:04:38 GMT, Anthony >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>"Bruce Chang" > wrote in
gy.com:
>>>
>>>
>>>> As far as I understand, exhaust gasses are routed back into the intake
>>>> to reduce NOx, not to heat up the intake. The intake air isn't
>>>> diluted with exhaust gasses until the engine has started to warm up
>>>> anyhow.
>>>>
>>>Actually, IIRC, on newer engines, they route the exhaust gas back in to
>>>help warm up the engine and fire off the cat faster.

>>
>>Sorry cant be done, what you are proposing is a perpetual motion
>>machine
>>Exhaust gas that combussts to heat up exhaust gases.
>>But Exhaust gas doesnt combust
>>
>>You can heat the intake mixture with exhaust via heat exchange to
>>increase the intake temp, but no by mixing exhauist with intake.
>>
>>IF you mix exhaust gas with the intake air there will be less
>>combustion heat, that less_heat, thus the reason it is used to reduce
>>peak burning temps for reducing NOx emmissions.
>>
>>Read again, that is done by mixing exhaust gas with the intake to
>>"cool" the combustion.
>>You cant heat the exhaust componenerts by coolling the combustion.

>
>What do you think
>Exhaust Gas Recirculation
>
>means ?
>
>Why do car engineers do it?


Already explained.

To reduce the peak burning temp, thus reducing NOx emmisions.

  #24  
Old February 10th 05, 05:52 AM
Lawrence Glickman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 15:33:02 +1100, RV > wrote:

>On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 21:29:24 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:23:06 +1100, RV > wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:04:38 GMT, Anthony >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Bruce Chang" > wrote in
igy.com:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> As far as I understand, exhaust gasses are routed back into the intake
>>>>> to reduce NOx, not to heat up the intake. The intake air isn't
>>>>> diluted with exhaust gasses until the engine has started to warm up
>>>>> anyhow.
>>>>>
>>>>Actually, IIRC, on newer engines, they route the exhaust gas back in to
>>>>help warm up the engine and fire off the cat faster.
>>>
>>>Sorry cant be done, what you are proposing is a perpetual motion
>>>machine
>>>Exhaust gas that combussts to heat up exhaust gases.
>>>But Exhaust gas doesnt combust
>>>
>>>You can heat the intake mixture with exhaust via heat exchange to
>>>increase the intake temp, but no by mixing exhauist with intake.
>>>
>>>IF you mix exhaust gas with the intake air there will be less
>>>combustion heat, that less_heat, thus the reason it is used to reduce
>>>peak burning temps for reducing NOx emmissions.
>>>
>>>Read again, that is done by mixing exhaust gas with the intake to
>>>"cool" the combustion.
>>>You cant heat the exhaust componenerts by coolling the combustion.

>>
>>What do you think
>>Exhaust Gas Recirculation
>>
>>means ?
>>
>>Why do car engineers do it?

>
>Already explained.
>
>To reduce the peak burning temp, thus reducing NOx emmisions.


Silly me. I thought it was to re-combust unburned hydrocarbons that
were emitted by the cylinders into the exhaust manifold, along with
any blowby from the crank case.

You say it is to -cool- off the peak burning temp in what? There are
only 2 places combustion is taking place.

1) cylinders
2) catalytic converter

You think EGR is cooling off any of those places? really? Why would
you want to? Cylinders are cooled by water jacket in block.

Catcon is cooled by radiation and convection.

Already not explained.

Lg

  #25  
Old February 10th 05, 06:01 AM
aarcuda69062
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >,
Lawrence Glickman > wrote:

> What do you think
> Exhaust Gas Recirculation
> means ?


It means that exhaust gas is recirculated.

> Why do car engineers do it?


To reduce combustion temperatures which reduces oxides of
nitrogen.

Not all engines have EGR, they warm up just fine without it.
  #26  
Old February 10th 05, 06:08 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

>Your friend must like stopping at the gas station, because without the

>thermostat closing your car will get really crappy gas mileage.
>


His '94 Ford Full Size truck has no thermostat. He says he gets about
10 MPG.

  #27  
Old February 10th 05, 06:13 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

>Your friend must like stopping at the gas station, because without the

>thermostat closing your car will get really crappy gas mileage.
>


His '94 Ford Full Size truck has no thermostat. He says he gets about
10 MPG.

  #28  
Old February 10th 05, 06:18 AM
aarcuda69062
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >,
Lawrence Glickman > wrote:

> >To reduce the peak burning temp, thus reducing NOx emmisions.

>
> Silly me. I thought it was to re-combust unburned hydrocarbons that
> were emitted by the cylinders into the exhaust manifold,


The catalytic convertor and any secondary air injection system
(if equipped) are perfectly capable of performing that task.

> along with
> any blowby from the crank case.


That would be the job of the PCV valve.
(closed crankcase ventilation)

> You say it is to -cool- off the peak burning temp in what? There are
> only 2 places combustion is taking place.
>
> 1) cylinders
> 2) catalytic converter


You're wrong on both.
Combustion occurs in the "Combustion Chamber.'
The catalytic convertor "oxidizes" HC and CO, it sometime also
reduces NOx

> You think EGR is cooling off any of those places?


In the combustion chamber, yes.

> really?


Really. I promise.

> Why would
> you want to?


Because when nitrogen, which makes up 78% of the intake air
charge is heated above (apprx) 2500 degrees Fahrenheit, oxides of
nitrogen are formed. Oxides of nitrogen are a primary
contributor to photo chemical smog.

> Cylinders are cooled by water jacket in block.


Yes they are, but that is not the issue since combustion does not
occur in the cylinders

> Catcon is cooled by radiation and convection.


True but irrelevant.

> Already not explained.


There is plenty of information out there on the subject.
  #30  
Old February 10th 05, 06:41 AM
Lawrence Glickman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 05:18:58 GMT, aarcuda69062
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Lawrence Glickman > wrote:
>
>> >To reduce the peak burning temp, thus reducing NOx emmisions.

>>
>> Silly me. I thought it was to re-combust unburned hydrocarbons that
>> were emitted by the cylinders into the exhaust manifold,

>
>The catalytic convertor and any secondary air injection system
>(if equipped) are perfectly capable of performing that task.
>
>> along with
>> any blowby from the crank case.

>
>That would be the job of the PCV valve.
>(closed crankcase ventilation)
>
>> You say it is to -cool- off the peak burning temp in what? There are
>> only 2 places combustion is taking place.
>>
>> 1) cylinders
>> 2) catalytic converter

>
>You're wrong on both.


Referee calls FOUL!
Throws down Red Flag.

Ball returned to Glickman.

>Combustion occurs in the "Combustion Chamber.'


That's the upper part of the cylinder nitwit, between the piston head
and the spark plug.

2 points GLICKMAN
7 yard penalty AARACUDA

>The catalytic convertor "oxidizes" HC and CO, it sometime also
>reduces NOx
>
>> You think EGR is cooling off any of those places?

>
>In the combustion chamber, yes.
>
>> really?

>
>Really. I promise.


Referee blows WHISTLE !
White flag out.
Managers on the field
discussion with Referee, eachother,
WHISTLE!

2 points AARACUDA
7 yard penalty STANDS

>> Why would
>> you want to?

>
>Because when nitrogen, which makes up 78% of the intake air
>charge is heated above (apprx) 2500 degrees Fahrenheit, oxides of
>nitrogen are formed. Oxides of nitrogen are a primary
>contributor to photo chemical smog.
>
>> Cylinders are cooled by water jacket in block.

>
>Yes they are, but that is not the issue since combustion does not
>occur in the cylinders


Referee calls FOUL!
Throws down Red Flag.

Ball returned to Glickman.

>Combustion occurs in the "Combustion Chamber.'


That's the upper part of the cylinder nitwit, between the piston head
and the spark plug.

2 points GLICKMAN
7 yard penalty AARACUDA

>> Catcon is cooled by radiation and convection.

>
>True but irrelevant.
>
>> Already not explained.

>
>There is plenty of information out there on the subject.


Makes one wonder why more people don't use google?

TOUCHDOWN!
6 points Glickman
Field Goal
SCORE!
2 points Glickman

BAND TIME, AND LETS SHAKE THOSE TITTIES GIRLS !!!
 




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