RWD vs. FWD in snow and ice

"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
>

>
> Blah, blah, blahbitty blah blah.
>
> A well-implemented RWD car is better than a poorly-implemented FWD car,
> and there are plenty of both types.
>
> A car with proper winter tires is better than a car with "all season"
> tires in treacherous winter conditions, whether the front or rear wheels
> be driven.
>
> A car driven thoughtfully, attentively and skillfully is better than a car
> lackadaisically aimed by a clueless, ignorant, self-distracted idiot
>
> And that's really the end of the argument. Debating RWD vs. FWD misses
> the point entirely.

Excuse me Daniel, is this guy for real???

By his standards then the following vehicles are unsafe and should be taken
off the roads:

Just about every Mercedes
All BMW's
All Ferrari's
All Maserati's (hell, lets just say all Italian sports cars)
Pontiac GTO (2004 - onward) (Had to fit Holden in there somewhere)
etc etc etc

I clicked on your link, but could find no method of sending a reply to Mr.
Macdougall. And he really, really deserves one.

Steve Magee
Newcastle NSW Aust

"Old Wolf" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> > > From our morning paper:
> > >
>
http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/in...9737092951.xml
> >
> > > "First of all, for anyone still piloting a rear-wheel
> > > drive vehicle -- GET OFF THE ROAD! There, I said it.
> > > In this age of front-wheel, all-wheel and four-wheel
> > > drive, you are nothing more than an obstacle, a fish-tailing
> > > hazard for the rest of us to dodge.
> >
> > Blah, blah, blahbitty blah blah.
> >
> > A well-implemented RWD car is better than a poorly-implemented
> > FWD car, and there are plenty of both types.
>
> I, for one, would rather lose rear-wheel traction, than lose
> front-wheel traction. In FWD and in RWD.

Good point.

Personally I've driven both FWD and RWD cars in the snow. I by far prefer
RWD as it gives much greater control. I've always had more control and been
more confortable driving a RWD in teh snow. Also have never gotten stuck in
the snow with a RWD, while FWD has given me some trouble. RWD is superior by
nature. I don't even like FWD on dry pavement. Can't acclerate as hard or
the tires break loose, to name one common problem. Oh well, to each his own.
I'll stick to driving real cars. I suppose in the snow your average moronic
driver just hasn't a clue how to do anything more than point the steering
wheel in the direction they wnt to go so FWD could potentially be easier for
them in that respect. I don't know, but I'm through with FWD cars. I've had
enough of modern cars, compact/subcompact, and sub-subcompact cars, and new
car crap in general.

"Cory Dunkle" > wrote in message
...

>
> Personally I've driven both FWD and RWD cars in the snow. I by far prefer
> RWD as it gives much greater control. I've always had more control and
> been
> more confortable driving a RWD in teh snow. Also have never gotten stuck
> in
> the snow with a RWD, while FWD has given me some trouble. RWD is superior
> by
> nature. I don't even like FWD on dry pavement. Can't acclerate as hard or
> the tires break loose, to name one common problem. Oh well, to each his
> own.
> I'll stick to driving real cars. I suppose in the snow your average
> moronic
> driver just hasn't a clue how to do anything more than point the steering
> wheel in the direction they wnt to go so FWD could potentially be easier
> for
> them in that respect. I don't know, but I'm through with FWD cars. I've
> had
> enough of modern cars, compact/subcompact, and sub-subcompact cars, and
> new
> car crap in general.
>

I had a 1974 Eldorado, and it was one of the best snow cars ever,
it weighed almost three tons, and had front wheel drive. I merely had
to air down the tires to twenty five pounds, and I could drive in
the snow just fine. I specifically remember going up in the woods
and passing a guy who slid off the roadway in his 4wd subaru looking
at me like I was a ghost or something as I drove past him.

It has to do with weight, and I think all other things being equal, FWD
is better than RWD for snow driving, but a FWD car is usually much
lighter, so you are comparing many other factors besides drive wheels
when you make blanket statements comparing the two.

Bernard
>

> Just about every Mercedes
> All BMW's
> All Ferrari's
> All Maserati's (hell, lets just say all Italian sports cars)
> Pontiac GTO (2004 - onward) (Had to fit Holden in there somewhere)
> etc etc etc

You would drive a Ferrari in winter?

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005, Joe wrote:

> You would drive a Ferrari in winter?

I certainly would...in Arizona, or California, or Texas, or New Mexico,
etc.

For more severe winter climes, I'd pick one of these Lamborghinis instead:

http://tinyurl.com/4y457

In article om>,
Old Wolf > wrote:
>
>I, for one, would rather lose rear-wheel traction, than lose
>front-wheel traction. In FWD and in RWD.

You like to spin? Because that's what happens when you lose
rear-wheel traction before front-wheel traction.

In article >,
Cory Dunkle > wrote:
>"Old Wolf" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>>
>> I, for one, would rather lose rear-wheel traction, than lose
>> front-wheel traction. In FWD and in RWD.
>
>Good point.

You like to spin too?

>Personally I've driven both FWD and RWD cars in the snow. I by far prefer
>RWD as it gives much greater control.

I've driven both also. Control depends a lot more on the tires than
the drive wheels. The FWD feels more controllable because it tends to
slide rather than spin, and because you can turn the drive wheels, but
I've driven the Miata around any number of slid-out FWD econoboxes.
(The Miata's big problem is ground clearance)

>nature. I don't even like FWD on dry pavement. Can't acclerate as hard or
>the tires break loose, to name one common problem.

I don't think that particular issue, which is due to load transfer,
matters on snow.

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005, Old Wolf wrote:

> I, for one, would rather lose rear-wheel traction, than lose front-wheel
> traction. In FWD and in RWD.

I agree with you, and one nice thing about RWD is that you don't lose
tractive AND steering ability when only one set of wheels loses grip.

(Of course, in many cases, if any wheels lose grip, you've got the wrong
tires and/or you're not driving properly.)

Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jan 2005, indago wrote:
>
> Good effin' luck. The best you'll do is a useless feel-good law against
> using a *hand-held* celphone while driving -- not even a half-decent
> compromise, 'cause it's known and robustly shown that the distraction is
> from the phone conversation, not the hold-in-the-hand phoneset.

How would the phone conversation differ from merely conversing with
someone in your vehicle, unless the handset had something to do with it?

Matthew Russotto wrote:

> In article om>,
> Old Wolf > wrote:
>
>>I, for one, would rather lose rear-wheel traction, than lose
>>front-wheel traction. In FWD and in RWD.
>
>
> You like to spin? Because that's what happens when you lose
> rear-wheel traction before front-wheel traction.
>

ayup, this is true. An educated foot on the throttle helps with RWD.
It also allows you to do stuff you just can't do with FWD.

nate


--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel