GM joins Ford in jettisoning the minivan market

hls wrote:
> "Backyard Mechanic" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Agree EXACTLY on the value of Aerostar and Astro... they were BEST OF for
> > many applications
>
> Didnt some of the Ford minivan series have some horrible problems with
> transmission failure, engine
> problems?

>
> Seems there were a lot of short runs on some of those trannies, maybe
> failures below 50 k miles?

Probably the Windstar, didn't that use the AXOD?

>
> The minivan was a good solution for some families, but not all of them were,
> apparently, created equal.
>

Very true.

nate

Steve wrote:
> N8N wrote:
> ow out.
> >
> > The retarded thing is that GM killed the Astro van which was a favorite
> > of service techs everywhere and had a little niche all its own. What
> > the hell were they thinking? There's no other vehicle to compete with
> > it, it still sold, and yet they axed it.
>
> I disagree. I'm guessing they got out BECAUSE there was another vehicle
> to compete with it, and one that took the whole market lock stock and
> barrel when it debuted: the Dodge Sprinter. With the option of a small
> Benz diesel in addition to the full line of gasoline engines and a very
> adaptable body, it pretty well blew the Astro into the weeds.

But the Sprinter doesn't compete with it, really - it's actually larger
in size than a full size G or E van. Also utterly impossible to enter
a parking garage with it, and who the hell likes unloading a van in the
rain?

Now if you say that because the Astro primarily sold as a service
vehicle not a family vehicle it should have been offered with a Diesel
engine, well, you'll get no argument from me there.

nate

In article >,
says...
> Seems like GM could easily remake the Astro off of the Colorado frame since
> it replaced the s10

I always thought putting the Colorado's powertrain and driveline under
GM's new Minivans would of been a smart move. It would have more hp,
same economy, and it would likely be just as easy to service as the
Colorado. That to me would give it the greatest advantage over every
f'ing pos minivan out there. God I hate working on minivans...

I was selling these for a while and we could never get enough Astro vans for
the trade. Not only did GM stop making them, they closed the plant in
Baltimore to boot. From what I understand the Astro was doing well on the
coasts but not elsewhere. I'm sure they could have kept it going somewhere.
Boneheads.
"Just Facts" > wrote in message
...
> Chrysler, Toyota and Honda must be very excited about this.
>
>> AUTOS November 22, 2006, 1:31PM EST
>>
>> What Do Moms Want? GM's Minivan Issue
>> GM joins Ford in jettisoning the minivan market but is it a smart
>> business
>> move or an admission of defeat?
>> by David Kiley
>
>> General Motors confirmed Nov. 22 that it's getting out of the minivan
>> business to concentrate on crossover SUVs. But the market for the two
>> isn't
>> necessarily the same. The problem is that, like Ford (F) >> was ceasing
>> production of minivans in September >> with better products from Toyota
>> (TM), Honda (HMC), and Chrysler. So rather
>> than trying to fix the problem, they're getting out entirely.

"Steve" > wrote in message
...
> N8N wrote:
> ow out.
>>
>> The retarded thing is that GM killed the Astro van which was a favorite
>> of service techs everywhere and had a little niche all its own. What
>> the hell were they thinking? There's no other vehicle to compete with
>> it, it still sold, and yet they axed it.
>
> I disagree. I'm guessing they got out BECAUSE there was another vehicle to
> compete with it, and one that took the whole market lock stock and barrel
> when it debuted: the Dodge Sprinter. With the option of a small Benz
> diesel in addition to the full line of gasoline engines and a very
> adaptable body, it pretty well blew the Astro into the weeds.

The Dodge Sprinter is a full-size van. The Astro is a mini-van. They are in
different market segments.

Jeff

>> So rather
>> than trying to fix the problem, they're getting out entirely.

It's kind of amazing, really, that GM is the world's largest company and
there are so many markets that they don't even sell to. They don't even
care. For instance, they had unreliable junky diesel trucks that nobody
would buy. They let that drag on forever. They didn't field a 4-door small
(now considered mid-sized) SUV for a long time. They made a half-hearted
effort with the stretched S-10, but that was just a pile of junk. They just
watched while Jeep and Ford ran away with a huge market. How about this -
no extended cab pickup until 1988. 15 years later to the market than the
2nd slowest. How about a competitor to the Mustang? Nope. Police car?
Nope. How about something you could use for a Taxi? Nope. How about a
low-slung 12,000 lb GVWR truck for rollback service, like an F-450? Nope.
Minivan? Nope. V-8-powered rear drive car? Well, yes, at a price much
higher than a 300C.

To be fair, though, I do see some markets coming back to them, and Ford
doing some of the same kind of ball-dropping that GM used to do. In the
1980's, GM squandered Cadillac's leadership position through a superhuman
effort to embrace every kind of mistake possible. It appears that market is
coming back around, or at least you could say Lincoln isn't leading any
more.

I also think the gas mileage of the 5.3 gas-powered trucks may be a class
leader. I'm pretty sure it is.

I think the HHR might be a hit. It may actually be outselling the other
entry-level crossovers.

"Joe" > wrote in message
...
>>> So rather
>>> than trying to fix the problem, they're getting out entirely.
>
> It's kind of amazing, really, that GM is the world's largest company and
> there are so many markets that they don't even sell to. They don't even
> care. For instance, they had unreliable junky diesel trucks that nobody
> would buy. They let that drag on forever. They didn't field a 4-door
> small (now considered mid-sized) SUV for a long time. They made a
> half-hearted effort with the stretched S-10, but that was just a pile of
> junk. They just watched while Jeep and Ford ran away with a huge market.
> How about this - no extended cab pickup until 1988. 15 years later to the
> market than the 2nd slowest. How about a competitor to the Mustang? Nope.
> Police car? Nope. How about something you could use for a Taxi? Nope.

Actually, the Chevy Impala is used both as a taxi and cop car.

For that matter, Corvettes, Camaros and Tahoes are used as polices vehicles,
too.

<...>

Jeff wrote:

> "Steve" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>N8N wrote:
>>ow out.
>>
>>>The retarded thing is that GM killed the Astro van which was a favorite
>>>of service techs everywhere and had a little niche all its own. What
>>>the hell were they thinking? There's no other vehicle to compete with
>>>it, it still sold, and yet they axed it.
>>
>>I disagree. I'm guessing they got out BECAUSE there was another vehicle to
>>compete with it, and one that took the whole market lock stock and barrel
>>when it debuted: the Dodge Sprinter. With the option of a small Benz
>>diesel in addition to the full line of gasoline engines and a very
>>adaptable body, it pretty well blew the Astro into the weeds.
>
>
> The Dodge Sprinter is a full-size van. The Astro is a mini-van. They are in
> different market segments.

Not really. The Astro is about as big as a "full size" van of the 70s,
on a little bit shorter wheelbase. The Sprinter is bigger, but still
smaller than the B-series it replaced, let alone the Ford E-series. Its
a delivery/fleet van, which is exactly what the Astro had morphed into
despite being created as a family "mini" van. It just wasn't very "mini"
and had the same miserable driver's seating position as full-size RWD
vans because of the engine "doghouse" being in the way.

The Impala is a horrible police car. The transmission doesn't last and
where I live it didn't make it as a taxi either.

I don't know where you live but a Corvette used by police enforcement? Palm
Beach or Malibu?



"Jeff" > wrote in message
news:fd1hh.1255$od6.771@trnddc04...
>
> "Joe" > wrote in message
> ...
>>>> So rather
>>>> than trying to fix the problem, they're getting out entirely.
>>
>> It's kind of amazing, really, that GM is the world's largest company and
>> there are so many markets that they don't even sell to. They don't even
>> care. For instance, they had unreliable junky diesel trucks that nobody
>> would buy. They let that drag on forever. They didn't field a 4-door
>> small (now considered mid-sized) SUV for a long time. They made a
>> half-hearted effort with the stretched S-10, but that was just a pile of
>> junk. They just watched while Jeep and Ford ran away with a huge market.
>> How about this - no extended cab pickup until 1988. 15 years later to
>> the market than the 2nd slowest. How about a competitor to the Mustang?
>> Nope. Police car? Nope. How about something you could use for a Taxi?
>> Nope.
>
> Actually, the Chevy Impala is used both as a taxi and cop car.
>
> For that matter, Corvettes, Camaros and Tahoes are used as polices
> vehicles, too.
>
> <...>
>

"VMan" > wrote in message
news:Lo2hh.75764$rv4.45820@edtnps90...
> The Impala is a horrible police car. The transmission doesn't last and
> where I live it didn't make it as a taxi either.
>
> I don't know where you live but a Corvette used by police enforcement?
> Palm Beach or Malibu?

I am in Ontario, and we have Impala's as Police cars, as well as taxi's.
Crown Vic's are also used. So are Tahoe's too.