Integra '93 - won't start

I have an Integra 93 with 120K miles on it, and a lot of rust, thanks
to the Vermont roads. About four months ago, while driving on highway,
my car had a sudden and short power loss: the tachometer fell to zero,
but then the car kept going for another month (100 miles or so) with
no starting problem at all, until one day it died in my driveway
(within few seconds of backing up). Then it won't start at all. I
searched this newsgroup and found that the igniter (ICM) was likely
the culprit. I changed the ICM, and the car started. Since then, it
ran for about another 100 miles, without any problem. Now, it won't
start again. The engine cranks, but I get no sparks. I tested the ICM
(as suggested on TEGGER's website), and it appears to be fine (BTW:
the old ICM also tests fine! I am puzzled). The coil has a mild sign
of heating, but the multimeter shows correct resistance. But I am
planning to replace that.

My question is from the group is: What possibly caused the two
failures in short duration? I am perhaps fixing the symptoms but I
want to know and fix the cause. Is it a sign to dispose the car?

Thank you!

"aerorea" > wrote in news:1175463318.499130.189360
@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:

> I have an Integra 93 with 120K miles on it, and a lot of rust, thanks
> to the Vermont roads. About four months ago, while driving on highway,
> my car had a sudden and short power loss: the tachometer fell to zero,
> but then the car kept going for another month (100 miles or so) with
> no starting problem at all, until one day it died in my driveway
> (within few seconds of backing up). Then it won't start at all. I
> searched this newsgroup and found that the igniter (ICM) was likely
> the culprit. I changed the ICM, and the car started. Since then, it
> ran for about another 100 miles, without any problem. Now, it won't
> start again. The engine cranks, but I get no sparks. I tested the ICM
> (as suggested on TEGGER's website), and it appears to be fine (BTW:
> the old ICM also tests fine! I am puzzled). The coil has a mild sign
> of heating, but the multimeter shows correct resistance. But I am
> planning to replace that.



Did you replace the igniter with new OEM, and did you reinstall the heat
sink (with heat sink compound)? Aftermarket igniters are notoriously
unreliable.

Testing the igniter once it cools off is not necessarily going to show you
anything of note. Igniters sometimes "fix" themselves when they cool off,
and the will then start.

Finally, it is not possible to properly determine coil integrity with a
multimeter. You cannot duplicate the effects of forcing kilovolts through
the windings. It may well be that your coil is bad.

A test: When you crank and receive no spark, does your tach needle jiggle a
bit, or is it dead still? If it's dead still, the "new" igniter is bad. If
the tach jiggles a bit, then it's likely the coil that's bad.

Finally, do not forget the distributor rotor. Check for continuity from end
to end on that part. Aftermarket rotors are known to blow their RF
resistors, killing the coil.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

On Apr 1, 5:49 pm, Tegger > wrote:
> "aerorea" > wrote in news:1175463318.499130.189360
> @e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:
>
> > I have an Integra 93 with 120K miles on it, and a lot of rust, thanks
> > to the Vermont roads. About four months ago, while driving on highway,
> > my car had a sudden and short power loss: the tachometer fell to zero,
> > but then the car kept going for another month (100 miles or so) with
> > no starting problem at all, until one day it died in my driveway
> > (within few seconds of backing up). Then it won't start at all. I
> > searched this newsgroup and found that the igniter (ICM) was likely
> > the culprit. I changed the ICM, and the car started. Since then, it
> > ran for about another 100 miles, without any problem. Now, it won't
> > start again. The engine cranks, but I get no sparks. I tested the ICM
> > (as suggested on TEGGER's website), and it appears to be fine (BTW:
> > the old ICM also tests fine! I am puzzled). The coil has a mild sign
> > of heating, but the multimeter shows correct resistance. But I am
> > planning to replace that.
>

Hi!

Thank you for your response.

> Did you replace the igniter with new OEM, and did you reinstall the heat
> sink (with heat sink compound)? Aftermarket igniters are notoriously
> unreliable.
>

The ICM was OEM, which I bought at the dealer's. I always use OEM
parts.
I did install it with the sink, but without the compond -- which does
bug me. I did not have the heat sink compound, and presume that it
would cost another $$ bucks.

> Testing the igniter once it cools off is not necessarily going to show you
> anything of note. Igniters sometimes "fix" themselves when they cool off,
> and the will then start.
>
> Finally, it is not possible to properly determine coil integrity with a
> multimeter. You cannot duplicate the effects of forcing kilovolts through
> the windings. It may well be that your coil is bad.
>

Yes, I saw this at your FAQ's. I do see a sign of heating on the case
of coil, but noting melted or something that indicates definite
damage. I'll let you know once I have replaced the coil.

> A test: When you crank and receive no spark, does your tach needle jiggle a
> bit, or is it dead still? If it's dead still, the "new" igniter is bad. If
> the tach jiggles a bit, then it's likely the coil that's bad.
>

The tach jiggles a bit upon cranking. Thank you for this information
(may be you should add it to your FAQ's, since no spark ambivalently
puts focus on ICM and the coil). This is a very good point.

> Finally, do not forget the distributor rotor. Check for continuity from end
> to end on that part. Aftermarket rotors are known to blow their RF
> resistors, killing the coil.
>

I had replaced the rotor alongwith the ICM last month. The distributor
cap and plug wires are 2-3 years old -- all OEM. And I do change
plugs almost every two years.

What could possibly be happening? The car has lot of rust. The seat-
belt wiring, for example, has problems. The belts did not always
engage. Again, all checks were fine. I also replaced the control unit
of the belts. At last, I have disabled them. So may be, it is the
condition of wiring in general, that has started to create problems.
I am not sure, but this may also be behind fouling up the ignition
units.

> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"aerorea" > wrote in
ups.com:


>>
>
> The tach jiggles a bit upon cranking. Thank you for this information
> (may be you should add it to your FAQ's, since no spark ambivalently
> puts focus on ICM and the coil). This is a very good point.



It is in there, but the whole "start problems" thing is due for a total
rewrite. I'm in the middle of that now.


>
>> Finally, do not forget the distributor rotor. Check for continuity
>> from end to end on that part. Aftermarket rotors are known to blow
>> their RF resistors, killing the coil.
>>
>
> I had replaced the rotor alongwith the ICM last month. The distributor
> cap and plug wires are 2-3 years old -- all OEM. And I do change
> plugs almost every two years.



Good on you for using only OEM.


>
> What could possibly be happening? The car has lot of rust. The seat-
> belt wiring, for example, has problems. The belts did not always
> engage. Again, all checks were fine. I also replaced the control unit
> of the belts. At last, I have disabled them. So may be, it is the
> condition of wiring in general, that has started to create problems.
> I am not sure, but this may also be behind fouling up the ignition
> units.
>


It's possible. Check the condition of wires at the big round connector at
the distributor, and check all grounds, especially the engine-to-rad-
support wire (side opposite battery), and the ECU ground at the thermostat
housing. If either is missing or disconnected, you can have weird problems.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

You cannot test coil with resistance range. In low voltage range, it will
be fine. When in high voltage, the voltage will leak from the crack
insulator to ground without any spark produce from spark plugs..


"aerorea" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I have an Integra 93 with 120K miles on it, and a lot of rust, thanks
> to the Vermont roads. About four months ago, while driving on highway,
> my car had a sudden and short power loss: the tachometer fell to zero,
> but then the car kept going for another month (100 miles or so) with
> no starting problem at all, until one day it died in my driveway
> (within few seconds of backing up). Then it won't start at all. I
> searched this newsgroup and found that the igniter (ICM) was likely
> the culprit. I changed the ICM, and the car started. Since then, it
> ran for about another 100 miles, without any problem. Now, it won't
> start again. The engine cranks, but I get no sparks. I tested the ICM
> (as suggested on TEGGER's website), and it appears to be fine (BTW:
> the old ICM also tests fine! I am puzzled). The coil has a mild sign
> of heating, but the multimeter shows correct resistance. But I am
> planning to replace that.
>
> My question is from the group is: What possibly caused the two
> failures in short duration? I am perhaps fixing the symptoms but I
> want to know and fix the cause. Is it a sign to dispose the car?
>
> Thank you!
>