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98 GRAND CHEROKEE BATTERY BEING DRAINED



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 8th 05, 09:07 PM
JEEPR
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Well I have diagnosed it down to the air conditioning clutch solenoid being
engaged all the time. not to sure what would cause it, I pulled the relay in
the power distribution box and re installed it, now fault has disappeared
for now.
As a side bar my new battery dropped to 9 volts and was boiling over in the
jeep. The out put from alternator is 14 v. Now the garage wants to recharge
it, I say it was defective because a battery should never loose its voltage,
but they would not listen to me.

--

Matt
0|||||||0
Tact is the ability to describe others as they see themselves
"L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
...
> Yes, but you have to at least have a voltmeter in your tool box,
> before you may start testing an electrical problem.
> I thank my Dad, too. And Mom for letting me drive twenty dollar
> cars on twenty five cent tires.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> Dave Milne wrote:
> >
> > Well, you have learned something now, Bill :-)
> > Seriously, I think it's better to read the manual and learn from a mate

than
> > it is too always book stuff into the garage, and not learn anything.

While
> > you will screw up from time to time, you win out in the long term. While

not
> > deluding myself as a great mechanic, I thank my Dad frequently for what

he
> > has taught me.
> >
> > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ



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  #12  
Old May 8th 05, 10:26 PM
DougW
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L.W. ("ßill") Hughes III did pass the time by typing:
> Yes, but you have to at least have a voltmeter in your tool box,
> before you may start testing an electrical problem.


Make that a digital volt meter, the analog ones arn't safe for using
on some sensors.

> Dave Milne wrote:
>>
>> Well, you have learned something now, Bill :-)
>> Seriously, I think it's better to read the manual and learn from a mate than
>> it is too always book stuff into the garage, and not learn anything. While
>> you will screw up from time to time, you win out in the long term. While not
>> deluding myself as a great mechanic, I thank my Dad frequently for what he
>> has taught me.
>>
>> Dave Milne, Scotland
>> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ




  #13  
Old May 9th 05, 12:08 AM
Dick
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On Sun, 8 May 2005 16:07:26 -0400, "JEEPR" >
wrote:

>Well I have diagnosed it down to the air conditioning clutch solenoid being
>engaged all the time. not to sure what would cause it, I pulled the relay in
>the power distribution box and re installed it, now fault has disappeared
>for now.
>As a side bar my new battery dropped to 9 volts and was boiling over in the
>jeep. The out put from alternator is 14 v. Now the garage wants to recharge
>it, I say it was defective because a battery should never loose its voltage,
>but they would not listen to me.


A battery will always lose voltage as it discharges. That's why your
flashlight gets dim as the batteries get used up. It's also normal
for the alternator to charge at around 14 volts when the battery is
discharged. This also depends upon outside temperature. Let the
garage charge the battery.

Dick
  #14  
Old May 9th 05, 12:48 AM
JEEPR
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a battery never looses voltage, it will loose its capacitance to delivery
current that why the flashlight goes dim, measure the voltage on a deed
flashlight battery and it will read 1.5v, but the potential (voltage) will
remain


Matt
0|||||||0
Tact is the ability to describe others as they see themselves
"Dick" <LeadWinger> wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 8 May 2005 16:07:26 -0400, "JEEPR" >
> wrote:
>
> >Well I have diagnosed it down to the air conditioning clutch solenoid

being
> >engaged all the time. not to sure what would cause it, I pulled the relay

in
> >the power distribution box and re installed it, now fault has disappeared
> >for now.
> >As a side bar my new battery dropped to 9 volts and was boiling over in

the
> >jeep. The out put from alternator is 14 v. Now the garage wants to

recharge
> >it, I say it was defective because a battery should never loose its

voltage,
> >but they would not listen to me.

>
> A battery will always lose voltage as it discharges. That's why your
> flashlight gets dim as the batteries get used up. It's also normal
> for the alternator to charge at around 14 volts when the battery is
> discharged. This also depends upon outside temperature. Let the
> garage charge the battery.
>
> Dick



  #15  
Old May 9th 05, 01:14 AM
L.W.(ßill) Hughes III
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My twenty year old Radio Shack analog is pretty sensitive:
http://members.aol.com/LWHughes3rd/voltmeter.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

DougW wrote:
>
> Make that a digital volt meter, the analog ones arn't safe for using
> on some sensors.

  #16  
Old May 9th 05, 01:19 AM
Dick
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On Sun, 8 May 2005 19:48:04 -0400, "JEEPR" >
wrote:

>
>a battery never looses voltage, it will loose its capacitance to delivery
>current that why the flashlight goes dim, measure the voltage on a deed
>flashlight battery and it will read 1.5v, but the potential (voltage) will
>remain
>
>
> Matt


That is absolutely not true. You apparently haven't measured the
voltage on a dead or dying battery. I have measured hundreds, if not
thousands of batteries in my lifetime, and I assure you the voltage
across the terminals will decrease as the cell(s) go dead.

Just for drill I measured the voltage on two AA cells I took out of a
wireless mouse because the mouse no longer worked. The batteries
measured 1.022 volts DC with no load on a $350 Fluke DVM calibrated by
Fluke. That's a long way from 1.5 volts. The same is true of any
battery.

As I said before, let the garage charge your battery. There is
probably nothing wrong with it, except that it needs charging.

  #17  
Old May 9th 05, 01:21 AM
L.W.(ßill) Hughes III
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Default

Wrong. The load tester, tests for how much a battery will recover
after a simulated fifteen second starter run in volts:
http://www.repairfaq.org/ELE/F_Car_B...CARBATTERY_010
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

JEEPR wrote:
>
> Well I have diagnosed it down to the air conditioning clutch solenoid being
> engaged all the time. not to sure what would cause it, I pulled the relay in
> the power distribution box and re installed it, now fault has disappeared
> for now.
> As a side bar my new battery dropped to 9 volts and was boiling over in the
> jeep. The out put from alternator is 14 v. Now the garage wants to recharge
> it, I say it was defective because a battery should never loose its voltage,
> but they would not listen to me.

  #18  
Old May 9th 05, 02:35 AM
DougW
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Default

L.W. ("ßill") Hughes III did pass the time by typing:
> My twenty year old Radio Shack analog is pretty sensitive:


They work for most tests but some of the newer fiddly bits like the
crankshaft position sensor, can be blown if you do an ohm test on em
with an analog meter. The analog meters use too much current to measure
the resistance load.

> DougW wrote:
>>
>> Make that a digital volt meter, the analog ones arn't safe for using
>> on some sensors.




  #19  
Old May 9th 05, 02:50 AM
DougW
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Just to claify a few things.

All batteries have a power curve and it varies from
model to model. Here is one for a standard AA battery. (e91)
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/e91.pdf

Flip to the second page and look at constant power discharge.

(I went through a lot of this figuring out what batteries
would last longer in my GPS unit) The Energizer and e2
profiles are almost identical so the only thing you got
when paying out the noze for an e2 was a warm fuzzy.

Anyhoo, back on line...

Feel like watching a slide show?
http://nms.csail.mit.edu/fun/battery.ppt

Optima self-discharge curve.
http://www.dcbattery.com/optima_self...rge_curve.html

Hope that helps clear things up.

The only sure way to test a car battery is a load
test. Most PepBoys and probably C-Tire (Tyre?)
will have a setup. This is a computer that charges
the battery then does a controlled and timed discharge.

FWIW, I've brought dead cell batteries back to life by
using a charger (high amp) and a volt meter to bring the
battery up to the service maximum 5-10 times in a row
and then using a low amp trickle till all cells bubbled
the same. I don't suggest doing this without eye
protection because you will bubble the cells quite a
bit and that's acid that is popping out even if you can't
see the microsopic drops.

--
DougW
And his portable soapbox.


  #20  
Old May 9th 05, 03:19 AM
JEEPR
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Posts: n/a
Default

Well Dick
The garage called and turns out the battery was defective as I indicated and
I was given a new one.
I don't want to flame anyone or blow my own horn, but I have had education
in power distribution for aircraft and lead acid battery maintenance was
part of it so I know what I talking about. When it comes to present day
automotive I am just as ignorant as most with the many different modules and
computers that control systems, that is why I am here to draw on the
experience of others. Now I just have to figure out what is activating the
solenoid, do not have wiring diagrams to follow. Give me a good schematic
not block diagram and a simple meter and I would not have much of a problem
except for the modules and computers.
Seems like this thread is getting out of hand so I will start a new one when
I have the time to continue trouble shooting the fault.

If measuring dead batteries makes you an expert well good for you.


Matt
0|||||||0
Tact is the ability to describe others as they see themselves




"Dick" <LeadWinger> wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 8 May 2005 19:48:04 -0400, "JEEPR" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >a battery never looses voltage, it will loose its capacitance to delivery
> >current that why the flashlight goes dim, measure the voltage on a deed
> >flashlight battery and it will read 1.5v, but the potential (voltage)

will
> >remain
> >
> >
> > Matt

>
> That is absolutely not true. You apparently haven't measured the
> voltage on a dead or dying battery. I have measured hundreds, if not
> thousands of batteries in my lifetime, and I assure you the voltage
> across the terminals will decrease as the cell(s) go dead.
>
> Just for drill I measured the voltage on two AA cells I took out of a
> wireless mouse because the mouse no longer worked. The batteries
> measured 1.022 volts DC with no load on a $350 Fluke DVM calibrated by
> Fluke. That's a long way from 1.5 volts. The same is true of any
> battery.
>
> As I said before, let the garage charge your battery. There is
> probably nothing wrong with it, except that it needs charging.
>



 




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