Big Three no more...

Looks like Toyota has surpassed both Chevrolet & Ford for cars sold.
Chrysler is now German-owned and smaller than Honda, Toyota, and
Nissan in terms of market share. The "Big Three" market share is now
only 48%. They totally abondoned cars for light trucks. Only this
coming model year-2005- will we see some decent cars from US
automakers.

Compare this to, say, 1970 when Detroit commanded over 90% ofthe US
car market. GM had nearly 50% all to itself.

Hopefully the new Fords, Chevrolets (GM), and Daimler/Chrysler models
will reverse this trend.

(Zoggin) writes:

> Looks like Toyota has surpassed both Chevrolet & Ford for cars sold.
> Chrysler is now German-owned and smaller than Honda, Toyota, and
> Nissan in terms of market share.

Hmm. I think you're talking about the US market, aren't you?
Worldwide, Toyota just squeaked past Ford for #2 last year, I think;
this includes cars and trucks.

And, of course, GM isn't just Chevrolet. Not even in the way that
Mercury and Lincoln are relatively small to Ford. I'm pretty sure that
GM is still #1 in the U.S. for total passenger car sales.

> The "Big Three" market share is now
> only 48%. They totally abondoned cars for light trucks.

Which is where the money seems to be right now, unfortunately. That is
more than half the U.S. market in unit sales, and possibly more in
dollars.

> Only this
> coming model year-2005- will we see some decent cars from US
> automakers.

And only in the past few years have we seen, say, competitive minivans
from the Japanese .

> Compare this to, say, 1970 when Detroit commanded over 90% ofthe US
> car market. GM had nearly 50% all to itself.
>
> Hopefully the new Fords, Chevrolets (GM), and Daimler/Chrysler models
> will reverse this trend.

--
-Stephen H. Westin
Any information or opinions in this message are mine: they do not
represent the position of Cornell University or any of its sponsors.

(Stephen H. Westin) wrote in message u>...
> (Zoggin) writes:
>
> > Looks like Toyota has surpassed both Chevrolet & Ford for cars sold.
> > Chrysler is now German-owned and smaller than Honda, Toyota, and
> > Nissan in terms of market share.
>
> Hmm. I think you're talking about the US market, aren't you?
> Worldwide, Toyota just squeaked past Ford for #2 last year, I think;
> this includes cars and trucks.
>
> And, of course, GM isn't just Chevrolet. Not even in the way that
> Mercury and Lincoln are relatively small to Ford. I'm pretty sure that
> GM is still #1 in the U.S. for total passenger car sales.
>
> > The "Big Three" market share is now
> > only 48%. They totally abondoned cars for light trucks.
>
> Which is where the money seems to be right now, unfortunately. That is
> more than half the U.S. market in unit sales, and possibly more in
> dollars.
>
> > Only this
> > coming model year-2005- will we see some decent cars from US
> > automakers.
>
> And only in the past few years have we seen, say, competitive minivans
> from the Japanese .
>
> > Compare this to, say, 1970 when Detroit commanded over 90% ofthe US
> > car market. GM had nearly 50% all to itself.
> >
> > Hopefully the new Fords, Chevrolets (GM), and Daimler/Chrysler models
> > will reverse this trend.


GM, Ford and Chrysler have not been the BIG three in many years.Honda,
Nissan and Toyota are far bigger companies. In auto circles GM, Ford
and DC are referred to as the Detroit Three instead of the Big Three.

(eddy eagle) writes:

> (Stephen H. Westin) wrote in message u>...
> > (Zoggin) writes:
> >
> > > Looks like Toyota has surpassed both Chevrolet & Ford for cars sold.
> > > Chrysler is now German-owned and smaller than Honda, Toyota, and
> > > Nissan in terms of market share.
> >
> > Hmm. I think you're talking about the US market, aren't you?
> > Worldwide, Toyota just squeaked past Ford for #2 last year, I think;
> > this includes cars and trucks.

<snip>

> GM, Ford and Chrysler have not been the BIG three in many years.Honda,
> Nissan and Toyota are far bigger companies.

What do you mean by that? In worldwide number of units sold, the order is
1. GM
2. Toyota (barely)
3. Ford

Nissan is smaller (and 44% owned by Renault, as I recall); Honda is
smaller yet. In terms of total revenue, I would guess that Ford's
finance and other subsidiaries (e.g. Hertz Car Rental) would make it
bigger than Toyota.

> In auto circles GM, Ford
> and DC are referred to as the Detroit Three instead of the Big Three.

I don't know what "auto circles" you're talking about.

--
-Stephen H. Westin
Any information or opinions in this message are mine: they do not
represent the position of Cornell University or any of its sponsors.

(Stephen H. Westin) wrote in message u>...
> (eddy eagle) writes:
>
> > (Stephen H. Westin) wrote in message u>...
> > > (Zoggin) writes:
> > >
> > > > Looks like Toyota has surpassed both Chevrolet & Ford for cars sold.
> > > > Chrysler is now German-owned and smaller than Honda, Toyota, and
> > > > Nissan in terms of market share.
> > >
> > > Hmm. I think you're talking about the US market, aren't you?
> > > Worldwide, Toyota just squeaked past Ford for #2 last year, I think;
> > > this includes cars and trucks.
>
> <snip>
>
> > GM, Ford and Chrysler have not been the BIG three in many years.Honda,
> > Nissan and Toyota are far bigger companies.
>
> What do you mean by that? In worldwide number of units sold, the order is
> 1. GM
> 2. Toyota (barely)
> 3. Ford
>
> Nissan is smaller (and 44% owned by Renault, as I recall); Honda is
> smaller yet. In terms of total revenue, I would guess that Ford's
> finance and other subsidiaries (e.g. Hertz Car Rental) would make it
> bigger than Toyota.
>
> > In auto circles GM, Ford
> > and DC are referred to as the Detroit Three instead of the Big Three.
>
> I don't know what "auto circles" you're talking about.

Well, based on market cap Toyota is about 6X GM and Honda is 1.5X GM,
Net income, same general pattern.
If you just want to brag volume, fine for right now. Like the old car
dealer ad said, "We lose a little on each vehicle, but we make it up
in volume."

(eddy eagle) writes:

> (Stephen H. Westin) wrote in message u>...
> > (eddy eagle) writes:
> >
> > > (Stephen H. Westin) wrote in message u>...
> > > > (Zoggin) writes:
> > > >
> > > > > Looks like Toyota has surpassed both Chevrolet & Ford for cars sold.
> > > > > Chrysler is now German-owned and smaller than Honda, Toyota, and
> > > > > Nissan in terms of market share.
> > > >
> > > > Hmm. I think you're talking about the US market, aren't you?
> > > > Worldwide, Toyota just squeaked past Ford for #2 last year, I think;
> > > > this includes cars and trucks.
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > GM, Ford and Chrysler have not been the BIG three in many years.Honda,
> > > Nissan and Toyota are far bigger companies.
> >
> > What do you mean by that? In worldwide number of units sold, the order is
> > 1. GM
> > 2. Toyota (barely)
> > 3. Ford
> >
> > Nissan is smaller (and 44% owned by Renault, as I recall); Honda is
> > smaller yet. In terms of total revenue, I would guess that Ford's
> > finance and other subsidiaries (e.g. Hertz Car Rental) would make it
> > bigger than Toyota.
> >
> > > In auto circles GM, Ford
> > > and DC are referred to as the Detroit Three instead of the Big Three.
> >
> > I don't know what "auto circles" you're talking about.
>
> Well, based on market cap Toyota is about 6X GM and Honda is 1.5X GM,
> Net income, same general pattern.
> If you just want to brag volume, fine for right now. Like the old car
> dealer ad said, "We lose a little on each vehicle, but we make it up
> in volume."

Well market capitalization means how much stock buyers are willing to pay.
It can change overnight, so I would think of that more as a performance
measure than one of size, which I think of as an intrinsic property.
Similarly, net income means that Toyota and Honda manage more profit
on each unit, not that their company is bigger.

Here are figures from Yahoo:

Mk.Cp. Revenue Gross Profit
GM 26.13 185.52 33.42
Ford 25.70 164.20 38.28
Toyota 118.18 147.99 26.32
Honda 43.08 73.31 21.26

Nissan doesn't have figures there, as their fiscal year ends at the
end of this month.

Anyway, GM and Ford bring in more money and the profit is greater,
as well. Apparently Toyota's larger unit volume is made up of
lower-priced cars than Ford, on the average. Or perhaps Ford's
non-automotive revenue is greater.

I didn't say "better", or "more profitable", I said "bigger".
And you were talking about "auto circles", not "financial circles".

--
-Stephen H. Westin
Any information or opinions in this message are mine: they do not
represent the position of Cornell University or any of its sponsors.

I think you should change your Depends now,

Which the stool contains mostly rice anyway!

Refinish King.

Oh, and by the way, are you a Toyota salseperson?

PS

Did you know the partnership at NUMMI, between GM, Toyota and Suzuki ends in
less than two years, and Toyota signed a ten year technology sharing
agreement with GM. Because GM has prefected the 48 volt electrical system
for vehicles, and look at who helped Bosch perfect the Electronic Injection
System, GM!


"eddy eagle" > wrote in message
om...
> (Stephen H. Westin) wrote in message
u>...
> > (eddy eagle) writes:
> >
> > > (Stephen H. Westin) wrote in
message u>...
> > > > (Zoggin) writes:
> > > >
> > > > > Looks like Toyota has surpassed both Chevrolet & Ford for cars
sold.
> > > > > Chrysler is now German-owned and smaller than Honda, Toyota, and
> > > > > Nissan in terms of market share.
> > > >
> > > > Hmm. I think you're talking about the US market, aren't you?
> > > > Worldwide, Toyota just squeaked past Ford for #2 last year, I think;
> > > > this includes cars and trucks.
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > GM, Ford and Chrysler have not been the BIG three in many years.Honda,
> > > Nissan and Toyota are far bigger companies.
> >
> > What do you mean by that? In worldwide number of units sold, the order
is
> > 1. GM
> > 2. Toyota (barely)
> > 3. Ford
> >
> > Nissan is smaller (and 44% owned by Renault, as I recall); Honda is
> > smaller yet. In terms of total revenue, I would guess that Ford's
> > finance and other subsidiaries (e.g. Hertz Car Rental) would make it
> > bigger than Toyota.
> >
> > > In auto circles GM, Ford
> > > and DC are referred to as the Detroit Three instead of the Big Three.
> >
> > I don't know what "auto circles" you're talking about.
>
> Well, based on market cap Toyota is about 6X GM and Honda is 1.5X GM,
> Net income, same general pattern.
> If you just want to brag volume, fine for right now. Like the old car
> dealer ad said, "We lose a little on each vehicle, but we make it up
> in volume."