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  #151  
Old December 20th 04, 02:41 AM
Bill Putney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Big Bill wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 15:39:24 -0500, Bill Putney >
> wrote:


>>Huh! Since when is simply giving you information a violation of anything?
>>
>>You can't force an ISP to use their resources to provide you the means
>>to express yourself any more than you can force yourself onto my
>>property to say or do anything that you want.

>
>
> Sur e he can - he has a contract with the ISP.


His "contract" with the ISP says they can terminate the "contract" if he
violates the TOS - that's part of the "contract" that he agreed to when
he signed up. So - no - he can't force an ISP to provide the service,
especially if he is in violation of the agreement, which includes the TOS.

>>But - yes - you have the
>>right to freedom of speech - but I (that's the generic "I" - I am not an
>>ISP) am not required to provide you the tools to do it. Get mad at me
>>if you want. Ever heard the expression "Don't shoot the messenger"?

>
>
> The right to freedom of speech has to do with governments in the US,
> not ISPs.
> It's rather amazing how many people invoke or try to explain the
> Freedom of Speech thing while knowing so little about it.
> ISPs are *not* required to provide a forum for anyone.


How is that different than what I said? Read what I wrote again. I
essentially said that, although, yes, he has freedom of speech, ISP's
are not required to provide the tools/resources for him to excercise it.

To reiterate, if he violates the contract, they can terminate his
service. The contract itself says so.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')
Ads
  #152  
Old December 20th 04, 02:56 AM
Lawrence Glickman
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On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 20:41:56 -0500, Bill Putney >
wrote:

PLONK

  #153  
Old December 20th 04, 02:56 AM
Lawrence Glickman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 20:41:56 -0500, Bill Putney >
wrote:

PLONK

  #154  
Old December 20th 04, 03:05 AM
Ray
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Default

Lawrence Glickman wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 05:44:15 GMT, Ray > wrote:
>
>
>>Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 20:03:27 GMT, Ray > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I'll go where I choose, do what I choose, and if you don't like it you
>>>>>can go **** yourself. Nobody tells me what to do or not to do and I
>>>>>do mean, nobody.
>>>>
>>>>your internet connection doesn't work that way. Your ISP's TOS has a
>>>>clause that allows disconnecting you for being an asshole. So, keep
>>>>being an asshole and you'll be an internet-free asshole.
>>>>
>>>>Don't believe me, email your ISP and ask them about it. Tell them some
>>>>stupid <insert favorite racial slur here> on usenet are causing you trouble.
>>>
>>>
>>>Another JERK heard from.
>>>
>>>If you take everybody of the Internet that uses offensive language.
>>>
>>>www.stormfront.com
>>>and
>>>www.vanguard.com
>>>
>>>should have their websites yanked fortwith.
>>>
>>>Do you think I should send a notice to their ISP?
>>>
>>>Let me know, and I will be sure to follow your instructions to a "T"
>>>
>>>Lg
>>>

>>
>>You know, I really shouldn't bother to reply, but you just don't have a
>> clue, do you?

>
>
> I will tell you one thing, boi,
>
> You take me off the air, and I gua ran tee that Stormfront is going
> down with me.


Uh, sure. Take them down too, whoever they are. It's not me. Call
the feds. I really don't care. Now, can you please get back on topic?

Ray
  #155  
Old December 20th 04, 03:05 AM
Ray
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Lawrence Glickman wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 05:44:15 GMT, Ray > wrote:
>
>
>>Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 20:03:27 GMT, Ray > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I'll go where I choose, do what I choose, and if you don't like it you
>>>>>can go **** yourself. Nobody tells me what to do or not to do and I
>>>>>do mean, nobody.
>>>>
>>>>your internet connection doesn't work that way. Your ISP's TOS has a
>>>>clause that allows disconnecting you for being an asshole. So, keep
>>>>being an asshole and you'll be an internet-free asshole.
>>>>
>>>>Don't believe me, email your ISP and ask them about it. Tell them some
>>>>stupid <insert favorite racial slur here> on usenet are causing you trouble.
>>>
>>>
>>>Another JERK heard from.
>>>
>>>If you take everybody of the Internet that uses offensive language.
>>>
>>>www.stormfront.com
>>>and
>>>www.vanguard.com
>>>
>>>should have their websites yanked fortwith.
>>>
>>>Do you think I should send a notice to their ISP?
>>>
>>>Let me know, and I will be sure to follow your instructions to a "T"
>>>
>>>Lg
>>>

>>
>>You know, I really shouldn't bother to reply, but you just don't have a
>> clue, do you?

>
>
> I will tell you one thing, boi,
>
> You take me off the air, and I gua ran tee that Stormfront is going
> down with me.


Uh, sure. Take them down too, whoever they are. It's not me. Call
the feds. I really don't care. Now, can you please get back on topic?

Ray
  #156  
Old December 20th 04, 12:21 PM
Bill Putney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Lawrence Glickman wrote:

> On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 20:41:56 -0500, Bill Putney >
> wrote:
>
> PLONK


Well thanks! But I wish I knew what I said that caused that - I'd have
said it sooner if I'd known. But I'm like Nate - you're still reading.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')
  #157  
Old December 20th 04, 12:21 PM
Bill Putney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Lawrence Glickman wrote:

> On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 20:41:56 -0500, Bill Putney >
> wrote:
>
> PLONK


Well thanks! But I wish I knew what I said that caused that - I'd have
said it sooner if I'd known. But I'm like Nate - you're still reading.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')
  #158  
Old December 20th 04, 06:25 PM
Big Bill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:53:49 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
> wrote:

>On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 16:48:56 -0700, Big Bill > wrote:
>
>I invokle my First Ammendment Right to
>tell you to FOAD.
>
>Lg


If my knowing more than you makes you do that, so be it.

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
  #159  
Old December 20th 04, 06:25 PM
Big Bill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:53:49 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
> wrote:

>On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 16:48:56 -0700, Big Bill > wrote:
>
>I invokle my First Ammendment Right to
>tell you to FOAD.
>
>Lg


If my knowing more than you makes you do that, so be it.

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
  #160  
Old December 20th 04, 06:29 PM
Big Bill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 20:41:56 -0500, Bill Putney >
wrote:

>Big Bill wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 15:39:24 -0500, Bill Putney >
>> wrote:

>
>>>Huh! Since when is simply giving you information a violation of anything?
>>>
>>>You can't force an ISP to use their resources to provide you the means
>>>to express yourself any more than you can force yourself onto my
>>>property to say or do anything that you want.

>>
>>
>> Sur e he can - he has a contract with the ISP.

>
>His "contract" with the ISP says they can terminate the "contract" if he
>violates the TOS - that's part of the "contract" that he agreed to when
>he signed up. So - no - he can't force an ISP to provide the service,
>especially if he is in violation of the agreement, which includes the TOS.


If one stays within the TOS, the ISP is required to continue to
provide a forum.
Remember what I responded to; it's just above, there.
"You can't force an ISP to use their resources to provide you the
means to express yourself any more than you can force yourself onto my
property to say or do anything that you want. "
I said that's wrong, and I stand by what I said.
>
>>>But - yes - you have the
>>>right to freedom of speech - but I (that's the generic "I" - I am not an
>>>ISP) am not required to provide you the tools to do it. Get mad at me
>>>if you want. Ever heard the expression "Don't shoot the messenger"?

>>
>>
>> The right to freedom of speech has to do with governments in the US,
>> not ISPs.
>> It's rather amazing how many people invoke or try to explain the
>> Freedom of Speech thing while knowing so little about it.
>> ISPs are *not* required to provide a forum for anyone.

>
>How is that different than what I said? Read what I wrote again. I
>essentially said that, although, yes, he has freedom of speech, ISP's
>are not required to provide the tools/resources for him to excercise it.


And I said (rightly) that if they contract to do so (and the TOS is
part of the contract), you *can* force them to do so.
>
>To reiterate, if he violates the contract, they can terminate his
>service. The contract itself says so.


Ah, "if he violates the contract." Indeed, but that wasn't in what you
said earlier.
>
>Bill Putney
>(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
>adddress with the letter 'x')


--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
 




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