90 spirit won't run

If the fuel injector is bad, how could it inject while cranking
and when you first press the gas pedal?
just because you see a spray does not mean it is enough to keep the engine
running, maybe the pintel is not opening enough to let fuel out, i cant
answer that, if you had some gum cutter or similar fluid, would you be able
to keep the engine running that way? and do you have a fuel pressure gauge
connected while it is running to verify 14 psi while it is dying?
"Wes Faul" > wrote in message
...
> The spark became less frequent as the car died, but it kept sparking until
> it was dead. I assumed the spark was slowing down because the car was
dying
> (since it wasn't getting gas). There was no fault code for the fuel
> injector - just the TPS and the Speed Distance sensor. I ended up
replacing
> the TPS because of the fault code, but then I went back and tested the
> original and it tested fine. I also tested the speed\distance sensor and
it
> tested OK (8 spots of 8 ohms and infinity between). After I disconnected
> and reconnected the battery, I have yet to come up with a fault code
besides
> 12 and 55. If the fuel injector is bad, how could it inject while
cranking
> and when you first press the gas pedal?
> Wes
>
> "maxpower" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Assuming that you are not losing spark, the fuel pressure is maintaining
> 14
> > psi........ then you may have a faulty fuel injector, was there an
> injector
> > circuit fault found at one time, i think it would be a code 26 but not
> sure?
> > "Wes Faul" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > The car starts, but immediately dies if I don't keep pumping the gas.
I
> > > noticed something else last night. The engine seems to bog down for a
> > > fraction of a second when the gas is first injected. If I remember
> > > correctly, it didn't accelerate until the gas was no longer being
> > injected.
> > > Then it dies if I don't pump the gas again. No dark smoke like it's
too
> > > rich.
> > > Thanks
> > > Wes
> > >
> > > "maxpower" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > ok first of all you only have 3 seconds of spark and fuel, if the
> engine
> > > > does not start within that time frame it shuts both off untill
> restarted
> > > > again,second, if you push on the gas pedal while cranking the
engine,
> > this
> > > > could cut the fuel off if you pump it., it sounds as if you have
fuel
> > > > pressure and the regulator is doing its job properly.If you see fuel
> > > > spraying as you crank it and it does not start you have some other
> > > problem,
> > > > if you have spark and fuel, you need to check the timing belt for
> proper
> > > > settings, If you e mail me back i wont get your message for awhile,
i
> > just
> > > > read the ones you sent me a few days ago, post here and i will try
to
> > help
> > > > you out, o yes, if you keep trying to start the engine, the
injectors
> > > spray
> > > > fuel in the cylinders, this could also cause a flooded condition and
> > make
> > > > the engine a no start
> > > > "Wes Faul" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > Is there a way to test the fuel pressure regulator? When I tested
> the
> > > > fuel
> > > > > pressure, I pinched off the return line, and the pressure (on the
> > > intake)
> > > > > did increase.
> > > > > Wes
> > > > >
> > > > > "Wes Faul" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > Alright - I took a look at it again last night. Fuel Pressure
was
> > > > reading
> > > > > a
> > > > > > steady ~14 PSI which should be fine (14.5 is what the manual
> said).
> > I
> > > > > > looked down the throttle body while my brother cranked it over
> last
> > > > night
> > > > > > and I think I found the problem. Fuel is injected when it's
> > cranking
> > > > and
> > > > > > when you first step on the gas pedal. It does NOT continue to
> > inject
> > > > when
> > > > > > it idles or while you hold the gas down. I don't have an
> > > oscilloscope,
> > > > > but
> > > > > > my multimeter showed a constant 14V at the fuel injector, so it
> > should
> > > > be
> > > > > > injecting fuel. I called the local dodge dealer, and the
> technician
> > > > said
> > > > > it
> > > > > > sounded like the fuel pressure regulator. I guess I'll replace
> that
> > > > > tonight
> > > > > > and see if that fixes it.
> > > > > > Any other suggestions on what it could be?
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Wes
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "aarcuda69062" > wrote in message
> > > > > >
> ...
> > > > > > > In article >,
> > > > > > > (Faulguys) wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Alright - here's an update. We checked the resistance to
the
> > ECM
> > > > from
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > speed sensor, TPS, AIS, and fuel injector cap. The only
thing
> > > with
> > > > a
> > > > > > > > noticeable resistance was the ground from the fuel injector
> cap,
> > > > which
> > > > > > read
> > > > > > > > between 9 and 10 ohms. I was able to keep the car idling
> using
> > > > > starting
> > > > > > > > fluid.
> > > > > > > > While it was idling, the hot wire going to the fuel
injector
> > cap
> > > > was
> > > > > > reading
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > steady 14V.
> > > > > > > > From this info, I have a few questions.
> > > > > > > > 1. I assume I should replace the ground wire from the fuel
> > > injector
> > > > > > cap - 9
> > > > > > > > ohms is way too high.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There is no ground from the fuel injector.
> > > > > > > One terminal of the injector is fed constant12 volts (14ish
with
> > > > > > > engine running), the other terminal is pulled to ground thru
the
> > > > > > > ECM.
> > > > > > > 9 ohms is meaningless, a voltage drop would be a more
meaningful
> > > > > > > measurement. Tough to do without an oscilloscope though...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2. Is the 14V for the injector cap within reason?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 14 volts is nominal when the engine is running and the
> alternator
> > > > > > > is functioning correctly.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 3. Is there anything else it could be besides the fuel
> pressure
> > > or
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > injector itself? I'm checking to see if I can get my hands
on
> a
> > > > fuel
> > > > > > > > pressure
> > > > > > > > guage tonight.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You haven't checked fuel pressure and volume yet?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

What is gum cutter? I am able to keep it running with starting fluid. If I
remember correctly, it was staying at 14 psi while it was dying. After it
died, it dropped to 10-12 psi. Is there a way to test the injector without
taking it into a shop? If the pintel isn't opening up, does that mean it's
just gummed up, or could it need replaced?
Wes


"maxpower" > wrote in message
...
> If the fuel injector is bad, how could it inject while cranking
> and when you first press the gas pedal?
> just because you see a spray does not mean it is enough to keep the engine
> running, maybe the pintel is not opening enough to let fuel out, i cant
> answer that, if you had some gum cutter or similar fluid, would you be
able
> to keep the engine running that way? and do you have a fuel pressure gauge
> connected while it is running to verify 14 psi while it is dying?
> "Wes Faul" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The spark became less frequent as the car died, but it kept sparking
until
> > it was dead. I assumed the spark was slowing down because the car was
> dying
> > (since it wasn't getting gas). There was no fault code for the fuel
> > injector - just the TPS and the Speed Distance sensor. I ended up
> replacing
> > the TPS because of the fault code, but then I went back and tested the
> > original and it tested fine. I also tested the speed\distance sensor
and
> it
> > tested OK (8 spots of 8 ohms and infinity between). After I
disconnected
> > and reconnected the battery, I have yet to come up with a fault code
> besides
> > 12 and 55. If the fuel injector is bad, how could it inject while
> cranking
> > and when you first press the gas pedal?
> > Wes
> >
> > "maxpower" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Assuming that you are not losing spark, the fuel pressure is
maintaining
> > 14
> > > psi........ then you may have a faulty fuel injector, was there an
> > injector
> > > circuit fault found at one time, i think it would be a code 26 but not
> > sure?
> > > "Wes Faul" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > The car starts, but immediately dies if I don't keep pumping the
gas.
> I
> > > > noticed something else last night. The engine seems to bog down for
a
> > > > fraction of a second when the gas is first injected. If I remember
> > > > correctly, it didn't accelerate until the gas was no longer being
> > > injected.
> > > > Then it dies if I don't pump the gas again. No dark smoke like it's
> too
> > > > rich.
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Wes
> > > >
> > > > "maxpower" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > ok first of all you only have 3 seconds of spark and fuel, if the
> > engine
> > > > > does not start within that time frame it shuts both off untill
> > restarted
> > > > > again,second, if you push on the gas pedal while cranking the
> engine,
> > > this
> > > > > could cut the fuel off if you pump it., it sounds as if you have
> fuel
> > > > > pressure and the regulator is doing its job properly.If you see
fuel
> > > > > spraying as you crank it and it does not start you have some other
> > > > problem,
> > > > > if you have spark and fuel, you need to check the timing belt for
> > proper
> > > > > settings, If you e mail me back i wont get your message for
awhile,
> i
> > > just
> > > > > read the ones you sent me a few days ago, post here and i will try
> to
> > > help
> > > > > you out, o yes, if you keep trying to start the engine, the
> injectors
> > > > spray
> > > > > fuel in the cylinders, this could also cause a flooded condition
and
> > > make
> > > > > the engine a no start
> > > > > "Wes Faul" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > Is there a way to test the fuel pressure regulator? When I
tested
> > the
> > > > > fuel
> > > > > > pressure, I pinched off the return line, and the pressure (on
the
> > > > intake)
> > > > > > did increase.
> > > > > > Wes
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Wes Faul" > wrote in message
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > Alright - I took a look at it again last night. Fuel Pressure
> was
> > > > > reading
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > steady ~14 PSI which should be fine (14.5 is what the manual
> > said).
> > > I
> > > > > > > looked down the throttle body while my brother cranked it over
> > last
> > > > > night
> > > > > > > and I think I found the problem. Fuel is injected when it's
> > > cranking
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > when you first step on the gas pedal. It does NOT continue to
> > > inject
> > > > > when
> > > > > > > it idles or while you hold the gas down. I don't have an
> > > > oscilloscope,
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > > my multimeter showed a constant 14V at the fuel injector, so
it
> > > should
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > injecting fuel. I called the local dodge dealer, and the
> > technician
> > > > > said
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > sounded like the fuel pressure regulator. I guess I'll
replace
> > that
> > > > > > tonight
> > > > > > > and see if that fixes it.
> > > > > > > Any other suggestions on what it could be?
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > Wes
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "aarcuda69062" > wrote in message
> > > > > > >
> > ...
> > > > > > > > In article >,
> > > > > > > > (Faulguys) wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Alright - here's an update. We checked the resistance to
> the
> > > ECM
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > speed sensor, TPS, AIS, and fuel injector cap. The only
> thing
> > > > with
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > noticeable resistance was the ground from the fuel
injector
> > cap,
> > > > > which
> > > > > > > read
> > > > > > > > > between 9 and 10 ohms. I was able to keep the car idling
> > using
> > > > > > starting
> > > > > > > > > fluid.
> > > > > > > > > While it was idling, the hot wire going to the fuel
> injector
> > > cap
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > reading
> > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > steady 14V.
> > > > > > > > > From this info, I have a few questions.
> > > > > > > > > 1. I assume I should replace the ground wire from the
fuel
> > > > injector
> > > > > > > cap - 9
> > > > > > > > > ohms is way too high.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There is no ground from the fuel injector.
> > > > > > > > One terminal of the injector is fed constant12 volts (14ish
> with
> > > > > > > > engine running), the other terminal is pulled to ground thru
> the
> > > > > > > > ECM.
> > > > > > > > 9 ohms is meaningless, a voltage drop would be a more
> meaningful
> > > > > > > > measurement. Tough to do without an oscilloscope though...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 2. Is the 14V for the injector cap within reason?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 14 volts is nominal when the engine is running and the
> > alternator
> > > > > > > > is functioning correctly.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 3. Is there anything else it could be besides the fuel
> > pressure
> > > > or
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > injector itself? I'm checking to see if I can get my
hands
> on
> > a
> > > > > fuel
> > > > > > > > > pressure
> > > > > > > > > guage tonight.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You haven't checked fuel pressure and volume yet?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

What is gum cutter? I am able to keep it running with starting fluid. If I
remember correctly, it was staying at 14 psi while it was dying. After it
died, it dropped to 10-12 psi. Is there a way to test the injector without
taking it into a shop? If the pintel isn't opening up, does that mean it's
just gummed up, or could it need replaced?
Wes


"maxpower" > wrote in message
...
> If the fuel injector is bad, how could it inject while cranking
> and when you first press the gas pedal?
> just because you see a spray does not mean it is enough to keep the engine
> running, maybe the pintel is not opening enough to let fuel out, i cant
> answer that, if you had some gum cutter or similar fluid, would you be
able
> to keep the engine running that way? and do you have a fuel pressure gauge
> connected while it is running to verify 14 psi while it is dying?
> "Wes Faul" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The spark became less frequent as the car died, but it kept sparking
until
> > it was dead. I assumed the spark was slowing down because the car was
> dying
> > (since it wasn't getting gas). There was no fault code for the fuel
> > injector - just the TPS and the Speed Distance sensor. I ended up
> replacing
> > the TPS because of the fault code, but then I went back and tested the
> > original and it tested fine. I also tested the speed\distance sensor
and
> it
> > tested OK (8 spots of 8 ohms and infinity between). After I
disconnected
> > and reconnected the battery, I have yet to come up with a fault code
> besides
> > 12 and 55. If the fuel injector is bad, how could it inject while
> cranking
> > and when you first press the gas pedal?
> > Wes
> >
> > "maxpower" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Assuming that you are not losing spark, the fuel pressure is
maintaining
> > 14
> > > psi........ then you may have a faulty fuel injector, was there an
> > injector
> > > circuit fault found at one time, i think it would be a code 26 but not
> > sure?
> > > "Wes Faul" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > The car starts, but immediately dies if I don't keep pumping the
gas.
> I
> > > > noticed something else last night. The engine seems to bog down for
a
> > > > fraction of a second when the gas is first injected. If I remember
> > > > correctly, it didn't accelerate until the gas was no longer being
> > > injected.
> > > > Then it dies if I don't pump the gas again. No dark smoke like it's
> too
> > > > rich.
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Wes
> > > >
> > > > "maxpower" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > ok first of all you only have 3 seconds of spark and fuel, if the
> > engine
> > > > > does not start within that time frame it shuts both off untill
> > restarted
> > > > > again,second, if you push on the gas pedal while cranking the
> engine,
> > > this
> > > > > could cut the fuel off if you pump it., it sounds as if you have
> fuel
> > > > > pressure and the regulator is doing its job properly.If you see
fuel
> > > > > spraying as you crank it and it does not start you have some other
> > > > problem,
> > > > > if you have spark and fuel, you need to check the timing belt for
> > proper
> > > > > settings, If you e mail me back i wont get your message for
awhile,
> i
> > > just
> > > > > read the ones you sent me a few days ago, post here and i will try
> to
> > > help
> > > > > you out, o yes, if you keep trying to start the engine, the
> injectors
> > > > spray
> > > > > fuel in the cylinders, this could also cause a flooded condition
and
> > > make
> > > > > the engine a no start
> > > > > "Wes Faul" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > Is there a way to test the fuel pressure regulator? When I
tested
> > the
> > > > > fuel
> > > > > > pressure, I pinched off the return line, and the pressure (on
the
> > > > intake)
> > > > > > did increase.
> > > > > > Wes
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Wes Faul" > wrote in message
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > Alright - I took a look at it again last night. Fuel Pressure
> was
> > > > > reading
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > steady ~14 PSI which should be fine (14.5 is what the manual
> > said).
> > > I
> > > > > > > looked down the throttle body while my brother cranked it over
> > last
> > > > > night
> > > > > > > and I think I found the problem. Fuel is injected when it's
> > > cranking
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > when you first step on the gas pedal. It does NOT continue to
> > > inject
> > > > > when
> > > > > > > it idles or while you hold the gas down. I don't have an
> > > > oscilloscope,
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > > my multimeter showed a constant 14V at the fuel injector, so
it
> > > should
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > injecting fuel. I called the local dodge dealer, and the
> > technician
> > > > > said
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > sounded like the fuel pressure regulator. I guess I'll
replace
> > that
> > > > > > tonight
> > > > > > > and see if that fixes it.
> > > > > > > Any other suggestions on what it could be?
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > Wes
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "aarcuda69062" > wrote in message
> > > > > > >
> > ...
> > > > > > > > In article >,
> > > > > > > > (Faulguys) wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Alright - here's an update. We checked the resistance to
> the
> > > ECM
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > speed sensor, TPS, AIS, and fuel injector cap. The only
> thing
> > > > with
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > noticeable resistance was the ground from the fuel
injector
> > cap,
> > > > > which
> > > > > > > read
> > > > > > > > > between 9 and 10 ohms. I was able to keep the car idling
> > using
> > > > > > starting
> > > > > > > > > fluid.
> > > > > > > > > While it was idling, the hot wire going to the fuel
> injector
> > > cap
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > reading
> > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > steady 14V.
> > > > > > > > > From this info, I have a few questions.
> > > > > > > > > 1. I assume I should replace the ground wire from the
fuel
> > > > injector
> > > > > > > cap - 9
> > > > > > > > > ohms is way too high.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There is no ground from the fuel injector.
> > > > > > > > One terminal of the injector is fed constant12 volts (14ish
> with
> > > > > > > > engine running), the other terminal is pulled to ground thru
> the
> > > > > > > > ECM.
> > > > > > > > 9 ohms is meaningless, a voltage drop would be a more
> meaningful
> > > > > > > > measurement. Tough to do without an oscilloscope though...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 2. Is the 14V for the injector cap within reason?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 14 volts is nominal when the engine is running and the
> > alternator
> > > > > > > > is functioning correctly.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 3. Is there anything else it could be besides the fuel
> > pressure
> > > > or
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > injector itself? I'm checking to see if I can get my
hands
> on
> > a
> > > > > fuel
> > > > > > > > > pressure
> > > > > > > > > guage tonight.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You haven't checked fuel pressure and volume yet?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

gum cutter starting fluid the same thing, even if you tested out the
injector with an ohm meter and i have no idea what the specs are,doesnt mean
it is anygood, you would just have to do what we do, if all else tests out,
connections, fuel pressure, all sensor values, timing set to specs, you
would have to take the next step and replace the injector, cause you cant
see what is happening with it internally,
"Wes Faul" > wrote in message
...
> What is gum cutter? I am able to keep it running with starting fluid. If
I
> remember correctly, it was staying at 14 psi while it was dying. After it
> died, it dropped to 10-12 psi. Is there a way to test the injector
without
> taking it into a shop? If the pintel isn't opening up, does that mean
it's
> just gummed up, or could it need replaced?
> Wes
>
>
> "maxpower" > wrote in message
> ...
> > If the fuel injector is bad, how could it inject while cranking
> > and when you first press the gas pedal?
> > just because you see a spray does not mean it is enough to keep the
engine
> > running, maybe the pintel is not opening enough to let fuel out, i cant
> > answer that, if you had some gum cutter or similar fluid, would you be
> able
> > to keep the engine running that way? and do you have a fuel pressure
gauge
> > connected while it is running to verify 14 psi while it is dying?
> > "Wes Faul" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > The spark became less frequent as the car died, but it kept sparking
> until
> > > it was dead. I assumed the spark was slowing down because the car was
> > dying
> > > (since it wasn't getting gas). There was no fault code for the fuel
> > > injector - just the TPS and the Speed Distance sensor. I ended up
> > replacing
> > > the TPS because of the fault code, but then I went back and tested the
> > > original and it tested fine. I also tested the speed\distance sensor
> and
> > it
> > > tested OK (8 spots of 8 ohms and infinity between). After I
> disconnected
> > > and reconnected the battery, I have yet to come up with a fault code
> > besides
> > > 12 and 55. If the fuel injector is bad, how could it inject while
> > cranking
> > > and when you first press the gas pedal?
> > > Wes
> > >
> > > "maxpower" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Assuming that you are not losing spark, the fuel pressure is
> maintaining
> > > 14
> > > > psi........ then you may have a faulty fuel injector, was there an
> > > injector
> > > > circuit fault found at one time, i think it would be a code 26 but
not
> > > sure?
> > > > "Wes Faul" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > The car starts, but immediately dies if I don't keep pumping the
> gas.
> > I
> > > > > noticed something else last night. The engine seems to bog down
for
> a
> > > > > fraction of a second when the gas is first injected. If I
remember
> > > > > correctly, it didn't accelerate until the gas was no longer being
> > > > injected.
> > > > > Then it dies if I don't pump the gas again. No dark smoke like
it's
> > too
> > > > > rich.
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Wes
> > > > >
> > > > > "maxpower" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > ok first of all you only have 3 seconds of spark and fuel, if
the
> > > engine
> > > > > > does not start within that time frame it shuts both off untill
> > > restarted
> > > > > > again,second, if you push on the gas pedal while cranking the
> > engine,
> > > > this
> > > > > > could cut the fuel off if you pump it., it sounds as if you have
> > fuel
> > > > > > pressure and the regulator is doing its job properly.If you see
> fuel
> > > > > > spraying as you crank it and it does not start you have some
other
> > > > > problem,
> > > > > > if you have spark and fuel, you need to check the timing belt
for
> > > proper
> > > > > > settings, If you e mail me back i wont get your message for
> awhile,
> > i
> > > > just
> > > > > > read the ones you sent me a few days ago, post here and i will
try
> > to
> > > > help
> > > > > > you out, o yes, if you keep trying to start the engine, the
> > injectors
> > > > > spray
> > > > > > fuel in the cylinders, this could also cause a flooded condition
> and
> > > > make
> > > > > > the engine a no start
> > > > > > "Wes Faul" > wrote in message
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > Is there a way to test the fuel pressure regulator? When I
> tested
> > > the
> > > > > > fuel
> > > > > > > pressure, I pinched off the return line, and the pressure (on
> the
> > > > > intake)
> > > > > > > did increase.
> > > > > > > Wes
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Wes Faul" > wrote in message
> > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > Alright - I took a look at it again last night. Fuel
Pressure
> > was
> > > > > > reading
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > steady ~14 PSI which should be fine (14.5 is what the manual
> > > said).
> > > > I
> > > > > > > > looked down the throttle body while my brother cranked it
over
> > > last
> > > > > > night
> > > > > > > > and I think I found the problem. Fuel is injected when it's
> > > > cranking
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > when you first step on the gas pedal. It does NOT continue
to
> > > > inject
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > > > it idles or while you hold the gas down. I don't have an
> > > > > oscilloscope,
> > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > my multimeter showed a constant 14V at the fuel injector, so
> it
> > > > should
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > injecting fuel. I called the local dodge dealer, and the
> > > technician
> > > > > > said
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > sounded like the fuel pressure regulator. I guess I'll
> replace
> > > that
> > > > > > > tonight
> > > > > > > > and see if that fixes it.
> > > > > > > > Any other suggestions on what it could be?
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > Wes
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "aarcuda69062" > wrote in message
> > > > > > > >
> > > ...
> > > > > > > > > In article >,
> > > > > > > > > (Faulguys) wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Alright - here's an update. We checked the resistance
to
> > the
> > > > ECM
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > speed sensor, TPS, AIS, and fuel injector cap. The only
> > thing
> > > > > with
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > noticeable resistance was the ground from the fuel
> injector
> > > cap,
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > read
> > > > > > > > > > between 9 and 10 ohms. I was able to keep the car
idling
> > > using
> > > > > > > starting
> > > > > > > > > > fluid.
> > > > > > > > > > While it was idling, the hot wire going to the fuel
> > injector
> > > > cap
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > reading
> > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > steady 14V.
> > > > > > > > > > From this info, I have a few questions.
> > > > > > > > > > 1. I assume I should replace the ground wire from the
> fuel
> > > > > injector
> > > > > > > > cap - 9
> > > > > > > > > > ohms is way too high.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There is no ground from the fuel injector.
> > > > > > > > > One terminal of the injector is fed constant12 volts
(14ish
> > with
> > > > > > > > > engine running), the other terminal is pulled to ground
thru
> > the
> > > > > > > > > ECM.
> > > > > > > > > 9 ohms is meaningless, a voltage drop would be a more
> > meaningful
> > > > > > > > > measurement. Tough to do without an oscilloscope though...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2. Is the 14V for the injector cap within reason?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 14 volts is nominal when the engine is running and the
> > > alternator
> > > > > > > > > is functioning correctly.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 3. Is there anything else it could be besides the fuel
> > > pressure
> > > > > or
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > injector itself? I'm checking to see if I can get my
> hands
> > on
> > > a
> > > > > > fuel
> > > > > > > > > > pressure
> > > > > > > > > > guage tonight.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You haven't checked fuel pressure and volume yet?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

gum cutter starting fluid the same thing, even if you tested out the
injector with an ohm meter and i have no idea what the specs are,doesnt mean
it is anygood, you would just have to do what we do, if all else tests out,
connections, fuel pressure, all sensor values, timing set to specs, you
would have to take the next step and replace the injector, cause you cant
see what is happening with it internally,
"Wes Faul" > wrote in message
...
> What is gum cutter? I am able to keep it running with starting fluid. If
I
> remember correctly, it was staying at 14 psi while it was dying. After it
> died, it dropped to 10-12 psi. Is there a way to test the injector
without
> taking it into a shop? If the pintel isn't opening up, does that mean
it's
> just gummed up, or could it need replaced?
> Wes
>
>
> "maxpower" > wrote in message
> ...
> > If the fuel injector is bad, how could it inject while cranking
> > and when you first press the gas pedal?
> > just because you see a spray does not mean it is enough to keep the
engine
> > running, maybe the pintel is not opening enough to let fuel out, i cant
> > answer that, if you had some gum cutter or similar fluid, would you be
> able
> > to keep the engine running that way? and do you have a fuel pressure
gauge
> > connected while it is running to verify 14 psi while it is dying?
> > "Wes Faul" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > The spark became less frequent as the car died, but it kept sparking
> until
> > > it was dead. I assumed the spark was slowing down because the car was
> > dying
> > > (since it wasn't getting gas). There was no fault code for the fuel
> > > injector - just the TPS and the Speed Distance sensor. I ended up
> > replacing
> > > the TPS because of the fault code, but then I went back and tested the
> > > original and it tested fine. I also tested the speed\distance sensor
> and
> > it
> > > tested OK (8 spots of 8 ohms and infinity between). After I
> disconnected
> > > and reconnected the battery, I have yet to come up with a fault code
> > besides
> > > 12 and 55. If the fuel injector is bad, how could it inject while
> > cranking
> > > and when you first press the gas pedal?
> > > Wes
> > >
> > > "maxpower" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Assuming that you are not losing spark, the fuel pressure is
> maintaining
> > > 14
> > > > psi........ then you may have a faulty fuel injector, was there an
> > > injector
> > > > circuit fault found at one time, i think it would be a code 26 but
not
> > > sure?
> > > > "Wes Faul" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > The car starts, but immediately dies if I don't keep pumping the
> gas.
> > I
> > > > > noticed something else last night. The engine seems to bog down
for
> a
> > > > > fraction of a second when the gas is first injected. If I
remember
> > > > > correctly, it didn't accelerate until the gas was no longer being
> > > > injected.
> > > > > Then it dies if I don't pump the gas again. No dark smoke like
it's
> > too
> > > > > rich.
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Wes
> > > > >
> > > > > "maxpower" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > ok first of all you only have 3 seconds of spark and fuel, if
the
> > > engine
> > > > > > does not start within that time frame it shuts both off untill
> > > restarted
> > > > > > again,second, if you push on the gas pedal while cranking the
> > engine,
> > > > this
> > > > > > could cut the fuel off if you pump it., it sounds as if you have
> > fuel
> > > > > > pressure and the regulator is doing its job properly.If you see
> fuel
> > > > > > spraying as you crank it and it does not start you have some
other
> > > > > problem,
> > > > > > if you have spark and fuel, you need to check the timing belt
for
> > > proper
> > > > > > settings, If you e mail me back i wont get your message for
> awhile,
> > i
> > > > just
> > > > > > read the ones you sent me a few days ago, post here and i will
try
> > to
> > > > help
> > > > > > you out, o yes, if you keep trying to start the engine, the
> > injectors
> > > > > spray
> > > > > > fuel in the cylinders, this could also cause a flooded condition
> and
> > > > make
> > > > > > the engine a no start
> > > > > > "Wes Faul" > wrote in message
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > Is there a way to test the fuel pressure regulator? When I
> tested
> > > the
> > > > > > fuel
> > > > > > > pressure, I pinched off the return line, and the pressure (on
> the
> > > > > intake)
> > > > > > > did increase.
> > > > > > > Wes
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Wes Faul" > wrote in message
> > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > Alright - I took a look at it again last night. Fuel
Pressure
> > was
> > > > > > reading
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > steady ~14 PSI which should be fine (14.5 is what the manual
> > > said).
> > > > I
> > > > > > > > looked down the throttle body while my brother cranked it
over
> > > last
> > > > > > night
> > > > > > > > and I think I found the problem. Fuel is injected when it's
> > > > cranking
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > when you first step on the gas pedal. It does NOT continue
to
> > > > inject
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > > > it idles or while you hold the gas down. I don't have an
> > > > > oscilloscope,
> > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > my multimeter showed a constant 14V at the fuel injector, so
> it
> > > > should
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > injecting fuel. I called the local dodge dealer, and the
> > > technician
> > > > > > said
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > sounded like the fuel pressure regulator. I guess I'll
> replace
> > > that
> > > > > > > tonight
> > > > > > > > and see if that fixes it.
> > > > > > > > Any other suggestions on what it could be?
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > Wes
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "aarcuda69062" > wrote in message
> > > > > > > >
> > > ...
> > > > > > > > > In article >,
> > > > > > > > > (Faulguys) wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Alright - here's an update. We checked the resistance
to
> > the
> > > > ECM
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > speed sensor, TPS, AIS, and fuel injector cap. The only
> > thing
> > > > > with
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > noticeable resistance was the ground from the fuel
> injector
> > > cap,
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > read
> > > > > > > > > > between 9 and 10 ohms. I was able to keep the car
idling
> > > using
> > > > > > > starting
> > > > > > > > > > fluid.
> > > > > > > > > > While it was idling, the hot wire going to the fuel
> > injector
> > > > cap
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > reading
> > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > steady 14V.
> > > > > > > > > > From this info, I have a few questions.
> > > > > > > > > > 1. I assume I should replace the ground wire from the
> fuel
> > > > > injector
> > > > > > > > cap - 9
> > > > > > > > > > ohms is way too high.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There is no ground from the fuel injector.
> > > > > > > > > One terminal of the injector is fed constant12 volts
(14ish
> > with
> > > > > > > > > engine running), the other terminal is pulled to ground
thru
> > the
> > > > > > > > > ECM.
> > > > > > > > > 9 ohms is meaningless, a voltage drop would be a more
> > meaningful
> > > > > > > > > measurement. Tough to do without an oscilloscope though...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2. Is the 14V for the injector cap within reason?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 14 volts is nominal when the engine is running and the
> > > alternator
> > > > > > > > > is functioning correctly.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 3. Is there anything else it could be besides the fuel
> > > pressure
> > > > > or
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > injector itself? I'm checking to see if I can get my
> hands
> > on
> > > a
> > > > > > fuel
> > > > > > > > > > pressure
> > > > > > > > > > guage tonight.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You haven't checked fuel pressure and volume yet?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, Wes Faul wrote:

> > I think you have an electrical problem. Somehow, that injector isn't
> > being given the right signals.

> I've checked the TPS, replaced the AIS, checked the Speed/Distance
> sensor. What other electrical sensors/relays, etc... do I need to check?
> The ASD relay shuts off the ignition, doesn't it? So it shouldn't be
> that.

The ASD relay controls the ignition, yes, but also the fuel pump and also
the injection. It is the "master shutdown switch".

> When depressurizing the fuel system, the chiltons

Ooohboy. Chilton books will get you nowhere in a big hurry. You need a
factory book. They're not hard or expensive to get.

> says to ground one terminal of the fuel injector, and touch the other
> terminal to the positive battery terminal.

Good way to fry a fuel injector.

Has the throttle body itself or the fuel injector been swapped? Although
physically interchangeable, different-year versions of this same system
run at different pressures. Starting in '91 or '92, the system pressure
was increased to 39psi, and the later injectors aren't compatible with the
early lower-pressure system.

Try this: Remove the battery negative cable from the battery and
leave it disconnected for two minutes, then reconnect it. Get in the car
and crank it, then check the codes and report what you find. I'm beginning
to suspect you'll see an 11.

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, Wes Faul wrote:

> > I think you have an electrical problem. Somehow, that injector isn't
> > being given the right signals.

> I've checked the TPS, replaced the AIS, checked the Speed/Distance
> sensor. What other electrical sensors/relays, etc... do I need to check?
> The ASD relay shuts off the ignition, doesn't it? So it shouldn't be
> that.

The ASD relay controls the ignition, yes, but also the fuel pump and also
the injection. It is the "master shutdown switch".

> When depressurizing the fuel system, the chiltons

Ooohboy. Chilton books will get you nowhere in a big hurry. You need a
factory book. They're not hard or expensive to get.

> says to ground one terminal of the fuel injector, and touch the other
> terminal to the positive battery terminal.

Good way to fry a fuel injector.

Has the throttle body itself or the fuel injector been swapped? Although
physically interchangeable, different-year versions of this same system
run at different pressures. Starting in '91 or '92, the system pressure
was increased to 39psi, and the later injectors aren't compatible with the
early lower-pressure system.

Try this: Remove the battery negative cable from the battery and
leave it disconnected for two minutes, then reconnect it. Get in the car
and crank it, then check the codes and report what you find. I'm beginning
to suspect you'll see an 11.

Daniel J. Stern > wrote in article
ich.edu>...
> Try this: Remove the battery negative cable from the battery and
> leave it disconnected for two minutes, then reconnect it. Get in the car
> and crank it, then check the codes and report what you find. I'm
beginning
> to suspect you'll see an 11.
>

Does removing the battery negative for 2 minuits reset the computer ?

Daniel J. Stern > wrote in article
ich.edu>...
> Try this: Remove the battery negative cable from the battery and
> leave it disconnected for two minutes, then reconnect it. Get in the car
> and crank it, then check the codes and report what you find. I'm
beginning
> to suspect you'll see an 11.
>

Does removing the battery negative for 2 minuits reset the computer ?

"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
> On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, Wes Faul wrote:
>
> > > I think you have an electrical problem. Somehow, that injector isn't
> > > being given the right signals.
>
> > I've checked the TPS, replaced the AIS, checked the Speed/Distance
> > sensor. What other electrical sensors/relays, etc... do I need to check?
> > The ASD relay shuts off the ignition, doesn't it? So it shouldn't be
> > that.
>
> The ASD relay controls the ignition, yes, but also the fuel pump and also
> the injection. It is the "master shutdown switch".
>
> > When depressurizing the fuel system, the chiltons
>
> Ooohboy. Chilton books will get you nowhere in a big hurry. You need a
> factory book. They're not hard or expensive to get.
>
> > says to ground one terminal of the fuel injector, and touch the other
> > terminal to the positive battery terminal.
>
> Good way to fry a fuel injector.

That's what I figured.
>
> Has the throttle body itself or the fuel injector been swapped? Although
> physically interchangeable, different-year versions of this same system
> run at different pressures. Starting in '91 or '92, the system pressure
> was increased to 39psi, and the later injectors aren't compatible with the
> early lower-pressure system.

I didn't replace either of them. I've had the car for about a month, and it
ran fine until this. I figure it has to be something electrical, though.
It was running fine when I parked it. Then, when I went to leave, it
wouldn't start.

>
> Try this: Remove the battery negative cable from the battery and
> leave it disconnected for two minutes, then reconnect it. Get in the car
> and crank it, then check the codes and report what you find. I'm beginning
> to suspect you'll see an 11.

After I replaced the TPS, I unhooked the battery to reset the codes. Since
then, I haven't had any codes except 12 and 55.
Wes