What gauge steel, body repair?

What gauge steel is used for the floor panels in a 1948 CJ2A? Also,
what gauge would be good for square tubing to replace the floor panel
supports? I think it would either be 10 or 12 gauge, but not sure
which. Anyone have any advice on attempting these repairs? I'll be
using an ARC welder -- I don't have a wire-feed.

I don't care how it looks, I'm not going to sale my jeep, and it is
already far from a collectors item. The tub is rusted all the way
through, pretty much all the way along the supports, a.k.a. "hat
channel" (seems like maybe the wood in the supports has something to do
with the rusting of those specific areas). I'm thinking I'll cut the
tub so that I'll end up with the support channel completely cut-off,
and the wholes I cut will pretty much trace where the channel was (be
about 1" larger on each side). I'll use my angle-grinder for that,
with a cut-off wheel. Then I'll weld the sheet metal on to cover the
holes. I'll have to bend the sheet metal in places, which will not
follow the original shape exactly, but I think this will be fine.
Instead of a curved shape, it will probably be more like a couple of
angles, since I also need to fit the tubing here, and I can't bend
that.

At the same time I'll probably also remove the toolbox, and just have
empty space under the seat for now (my seat frame doesn't fold forward
anyway, it isn't original).

I can get all of the steel I need for less than $100, where it would
cost $300 to $600 to get the prefab stuff from Classic Enterprises or
Omix-Ada. Plus, the prefab stuff sounds like more work to get it to
turn out right (have to cut out more of the tub, and have to cut along
just the right lines to fit the new stuff in). I'm looking for more of
an ugly band-aid, since you can't see the bottom, and I have carpet
(and some heat shield/padding material) on the inside.

If I had it do over again, I'd buy a new steel tub:
http://www.trailquest.com/body-parts/cj2a.shtml
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/V...001014/c-10101
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/pismo.htm

wrote:
>
> What gauge steel is used for the floor panels in a 1948 CJ2A? Also,
> what gauge would be good for square tubing to replace the floor panel
> supports? I think it would either be 10 or 12 gauge, but not sure
> which. Anyone have any advice on attempting these repairs? I'll be
> using an ARC welder -- I don't have a wire-feed.
>
> I don't care how it looks, I'm not going to sale my jeep, and it is
> already far from a collectors item. The tub is rusted all the way
> through, pretty much all the way along the supports, a.k.a. "hat
> channel" (seems like maybe the wood in the supports has something to do
> with the rusting of those specific areas). I'm thinking I'll cut the
> tub so that I'll end up with the support channel completely cut-off,
> and the wholes I cut will pretty much trace where the channel was (be
> about 1" larger on each side). I'll use my angle-grinder for that,
> with a cut-off wheel. Then I'll weld the sheet metal on to cover the
> holes. I'll have to bend the sheet metal in places, which will not
> follow the original shape exactly, but I think this will be fine.
> Instead of a curved shape, it will probably be more like a couple of
> angles, since I also need to fit the tubing here, and I can't bend
> that.
>
> At the same time I'll probably also remove the toolbox, and just have
> empty space under the seat for now (my seat frame doesn't fold forward
> anyway, it isn't original).
>
> I can get all of the steel I need for less than $100, where it would
> cost $300 to $600 to get the prefab stuff from Classic Enterprises or
> Omix-Ada. Plus, the prefab stuff sounds like more work to get it to
> turn out right (have to cut out more of the tub, and have to cut along
> just the right lines to fit the new stuff in). I'm looking for more of
> an ugly band-aid, since you can't see the bottom, and I have carpet
> (and some heat shield/padding material) on the inside.

You're not going to weld this stuff with a buzz box, unless you are a lot
better than I am, and maybe not even then. MIG will work, as will torch
welding or brazing. I am not up on all the fancy modern stuff.

A vehicle floor should be at least 20 gauge, in my opinion. That is what I
used for the floor of my Bug when I repaired it. I took a piece of the
original metal to a shop, and they told me it was "probably close to 22".
At the risk of repeating myself, there is no way you are going to weld this
stuff with a buzz box, unless you are Nathan. He could probably do it.

Earle

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> What gauge steel is used for the floor panels in a 1948 CJ2A? Also,
> what gauge would be good for square tubing to replace the floor panel
> supports? I think it would either be 10 or 12 gauge, but not sure
> which. Anyone have any advice on attempting these repairs? I'll be
> using an ARC welder -- I don't have a wire-feed.
>
> I don't care how it looks, I'm not going to sale my jeep, and it is
> already far from a collectors item. The tub is rusted all the way
> through, pretty much all the way along the supports, a.k.a. "hat
> channel" (seems like maybe the wood in the supports has something to do
> with the rusting of those specific areas). I'm thinking I'll cut the
> tub so that I'll end up with the support channel completely cut-off,
> and the wholes I cut will pretty much trace where the channel was (be
> about 1" larger on each side). I'll use my angle-grinder for that,
> with a cut-off wheel. Then I'll weld the sheet metal on to cover the
> holes. I'll have to bend the sheet metal in places, which will not
> follow the original shape exactly, but I think this will be fine.
> Instead of a curved shape, it will probably be more like a couple of
> angles, since I also need to fit the tubing here, and I can't bend
> that.
>
> At the same time I'll probably also remove the toolbox, and just have
> empty space under the seat for now (my seat frame doesn't fold forward
> anyway, it isn't original).
>
> I can get all of the steel I need for less than $100, where it would
> cost $300 to $600 to get the prefab stuff from Classic Enterprises or
> Omix-Ada. Plus, the prefab stuff sounds like more work to get it to
> turn out right (have to cut out more of the tub, and have to cut along
> just the right lines to fit the new stuff in). I'm looking for more of
> an ugly band-aid, since you can't see the bottom, and I have carpet
> (and some heat shield/padding material) on the inside.
>



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

did pass the time by typing:
> What gauge steel is used for the floor panels in a 1948 CJ2A? Also,
> what gauge would be good for square tubing to replace the floor panel
> supports? I think it would either be 10 or 12 gauge, but not sure
> which. Anyone have any advice on attempting these repairs? I'll be
> using an ARC welder -- I don't have a wire-feed.

As others have said, stick is near impossible to work on sheet metal.
(at least for me) stick is better for large pipe/plate.

MIG is what you need. That and a plasma cutter.

With all the projects you mention I'd suggest reading Nate's page
about welding gear and getting a MIG and Plasma Cutter.
http://collierwelding.com/

> I can get all of the steel I need for less than $100, where it would
> cost $300 to $600 to get the prefab stuff from Classic Enterprises or
> Omix-Ada. Plus, the prefab stuff sounds like more work to get it to
> turn out right

Ah..But with prefab you only use what you need. And some of those
shapes are damn hard to do without metal working equipment.

Consider how much rust you might find, the size of the patch, etc.
Basically you just cut/transfer/cut/weld with replacement panels.

Tear into it, figure out all the rust spots, then price out a new
tub, your time, etc.

What ever your choice is, good luck.

--
DougW

Thanks for all of the info, from everyone. I'll be sure and try a test
on a scrap piece (I've got a couple laying around, luckily), but I'm
not a pro or anything, so I imagine I will not be able to weld it with
my ARC welder. Too bad my brother just moved far away, since he has a
wire-feed.

Guess I could do like the guy before me and use screws.

I was thinking 10 or 12 gauge steel, but if it is really 20, then that
should be even cheaper. The 12 gauge was $90 per sheet (4'x8'), so
maybe the 20 is around $50.

Whenever I think of spending almost $3000 on a new tub, I always think
of something I'd rather spend the money on, like an engine swap, which
is still next on my list. I'd probably go custom, with lots of tubes
and full-roll cage, before spending that kind of money on something
original.

DougW wrote:
> As others have said, stick is near impossible to work on sheet metal.
> (at least for me) stick is better for large pipe/plate.
>
> MIG is what you need. That and a plasma cutter.

12 ga is 0.104" thick. you could stick weld that all day long. Problem
is, finding something to weld it to. I'm guessing the pan is 16 ga or 18
ga (.059"-.048") and you'll burn that up trying to stick weld it.
12 ga is also 140# per sheet... you building a truck or a tank?
For 20 ga, screws or pop rivets would work but welds are forever.
Might look at one of these for cutting the sheetmetal... way cheaper
than a plasma torch and they rip through sheetmetal:
http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/112/...e/4074ap1l.gif
(#4074A52)


wrote:
> Thanks for all of the info, from everyone. I'll be sure and try a test
> on a scrap piece (I've got a couple laying around, luckily), but I'm
> not a pro or anything, so I imagine I will not be able to weld it with
> my ARC welder. Too bad my brother just moved far away, since he has a
> wire-feed.
>
> Guess I could do like the guy before me and use screws.
>
> I was thinking 10 or 12 gauge steel, but if it is really 20, then that
> should be even cheaper. The 12 gauge was $90 per sheet (4'x8'), so
> maybe the 20 is around $50.
>
> Whenever I think of spending almost $3000 on a new tub, I always think
> of something I'd rather spend the money on, like an engine swap, which
> is still next on my list. I'd probably go custom, with lots of tubes
> and full-roll cage, before spending that kind of money on something
> original.
>
> DougW wrote:
>> As others have said, stick is near impossible to work on sheet metal.
>> (at least for me) stick is better for large pipe/plate.
>>
>> MIG is what you need. That and a plasma cutter.
>

Thanks Clay, I hadn't thought much about the weight. I think I'm going
to go with 20ga and just use screws. I'll just screw it over the top
of the existing rusty mess. I'll be happy if it lasts for 2 years,
because by then I'll be ready to do something else (some kind of new
tub, either original or custom). My only real goal for now is to get
rid of that loud noise when I go over speed bumps (sound of the body
lifting up about an inch, then slamming back down on the frame). I got
some new body mounts also, and this time I'm going to use lock nuts,
because all of the nuts had fallen off of every last bolt which was
holding on the body (the bolts were still there, keeping the body from
sliding side to side). If it isn't too much work I'll actually drill
holes in the bolts and use cotter pins to lock the nuts.

Clay wrote:
> 12 ga is 0.104" thick. you could stick weld that all day long. Problem
> is, finding something to weld it to. I'm guessing the pan is 16 ga or 18
> ga (.059"-.048") and you'll burn that up trying to stick weld it.
> 12 ga is also 140# per sheet... you building a truck or a tank?
> For 20 ga, screws or pop rivets would work but welds are forever.
> Might look at one of these for cutting the sheetmetal... way cheaper
> than a plasma torch and they rip through sheetmetal:
> http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/112/...e/4074ap1l.gif
> (#4074A52)
>

When I put my 'glass body on I used loctite on the nuts and they all
held perfectly with no rust because it is a sealed joint.

People do sell floor pan pieces for the tubs already made up. If you
are going to all that work anyway, cutting out all the crap and putting
in a new ready made piece would keep it going for a long time....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

wrote:
>
> Thanks Clay, I hadn't thought much about the weight. I think I'm going
> to go with 20ga and just use screws. I'll just screw it over the top
> of the existing rusty mess. I'll be happy if it lasts for 2 years,
> because by then I'll be ready to do something else (some kind of new
> tub, either original or custom). My only real goal for now is to get
> rid of that loud noise when I go over speed bumps (sound of the body
> lifting up about an inch, then slamming back down on the frame). I got
> some new body mounts also, and this time I'm going to use lock nuts,
> because all of the nuts had fallen off of every last bolt which was
> holding on the body (the bolts were still there, keeping the body from
> sliding side to side). If it isn't too much work I'll actually drill
> holes in the bolts and use cotter pins to lock the nuts.
>
> Clay wrote:
> > 12 ga is 0.104" thick. you could stick weld that all day long. Problem
> > is, finding something to weld it to. I'm guessing the pan is 16 ga or 18
> > ga (.059"-.048") and you'll burn that up trying to stick weld it.
> > 12 ga is also 140# per sheet... you building a truck or a tank?
> > For 20 ga, screws or pop rivets would work but welds are forever.
> > Might look at one of these for cutting the sheetmetal... way cheaper
> > than a plasma torch and they rip through sheetmetal:
> > http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/112/...e/4074ap1l.gif
> > (#4074A52)
> >

don't let them scare you, I am welding sheet with a gasless Mig (wire
feed flux welder) you just have to use the right tecnique. A cheap
Harbor frieght flux mig cost around 100 bucks and I've managed 20 guage
sheet with patience and the will to grind ugly welds.

My last project was to weld a 18 guage tube onto the roughly 16 guage
metal "Air Hat" that comes with a Holley pro-jection fuel injection
system. The Harbor frieght Flux core mig did good enough that I didn't
even grind the welds down before I powdercoated the new air cleaner
housing (air hat or whatever you want to call the housing that sits on
top of a trottle body injector like an old carb style filter housing)
The Jeep is now breathing cold air through a K&N style cone filter
through 4" OD (always overbuild!) tubing, the damn thing positively
ROARS at WOT now.. Not that it's way more powerfull but the tubing
ressonates from 1500 RPM's and up...

--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein

Pop rivets work better than screws, and don't vibrate loose.

Earle

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Thanks Clay, I hadn't thought much about the weight. I think I'm going
> to go with 20ga and just use screws. I'll just screw it over the top
> of the existing rusty mess. I'll be happy if it lasts for 2 years,
> because by then I'll be ready to do something else (some kind of new
> tub, either original or custom). My only real goal for now is to get
> rid of that loud noise when I go over speed bumps (sound of the body
> lifting up about an inch, then slamming back down on the frame). I got
> some new body mounts also, and this time I'm going to use lock nuts,
> because all of the nuts had fallen off of every last bolt which was
> holding on the body (the bolts were still there, keeping the body from
> sliding side to side). If it isn't too much work I'll actually drill
> holes in the bolts and use cotter pins to lock the nuts.
>
> Clay wrote:
> > 12 ga is 0.104" thick. you could stick weld that all day long. Problem
> > is, finding something to weld it to. I'm guessing the pan is 16 ga or 18
> > ga (.059"-.048") and you'll burn that up trying to stick weld it.
> > 12 ga is also 140# per sheet... you building a truck or a tank?
> > For 20 ga, screws or pop rivets would work but welds are forever.
> > Might look at one of these for cutting the sheetmetal... way cheaper
> > than a plasma torch and they rip through sheetmetal:
> > http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/112/...e/4074ap1l.gif
> > (#4074A52)
> >
>