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Question for Europeans



 
 
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  #101  
Old May 11th 05, 03:50 PM
Magnulus
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Yeah, but a car like the Smart fortwo would probably not get very good
crash tests in the US. Probably better than some of the cars we had in the
past, though.


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  #102  
Old May 11th 05, 04:11 PM
Depresion
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"Magnulus" > wrote in message
.. .
> Yeah, but a car like the Smart fortwo would probably not get very good
> crash tests in the US. Probably better than some of the cars we had in the
> past, though.


Anything's got to be better than the Pinto. (With the exception of the Rover 100
and Fiat Seicento)

The Toyota Corolla 2003 gets 4 NCAP stars and rating of Good front Acceptable
side and poor rear from IIHS in the USA.


  #103  
Old May 11th 05, 04:23 PM
Bernd Felsche
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"Magnulus" > writes:

>Alot of small cars would not be sold in the US because they would get
>very poor scores in crash tests, based on the way our tests are performed.


"our" being US?

It's not unheard for US-designed/-compliant vehicles to *fail* the
EU frontal offset impact test. That says more about the diverse,
respective testing ideologies than the practical crashworthiness of
a vehicle.

>Government crash test ratings can be a deal breaker for many people
>looking at cars and trucks now days. A few years ago, it wasn't
>such a big issue. I think the dispelling the notion that SUV's
>weren't necessarily "safe" has heightened awareness.


Europeans assume that the vehicle occupants have enough neurons to
wear a seat belt. That's a baseline far higher than the USA.

OTOH, EU crash testing is in some ways much more onerous than the
US. Convertible cars in the USA were (are?) exempt from rollover
testing and the rollover testing on hard-tops in the US was from a
stationary tipping platform whereas the EU required a concurrent
forward speed of about 80 km/h (IIRC) for all passenger cars.
--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus!
X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature
/ \ and postings | to help me spread!
  #104  
Old May 11th 05, 05:25 PM
Brimstone
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David Taylor wrote:
> Brimstone > wrote on Tue, 10 May 2005 15:58:21
> GMT:
>> David Taylor wrote:
>>> Brimstone > wrote on Tue, 10 May 2005 14:20:21
>>> GMT:
>>>> Depresion wrote:
>>>>> 3/4 or UK's local roads are deteriorating year on year. We are
>>>>> ?8.3 billon behind in road maintenance. By last year the plan was
>>>>> to have halted the deterioration but it hasn't happened and by
>>>>> 2010 we were to have caught up and removed the backlog
>>>>> unfortunately the first part was no where near achieved as about
>>>>> 50% of the money allocated for maintenance is being spent
>>>>> elsewhere on things like speed cushions, bus lanes, and what's
>>>>> laughably called our education system by local authorities. It's
>>>>> about time that money allocated by the national government for
>>>>> road maintenance is reserved only for use in actually
>>>>> maintaining roads.
>>>>
>>>> I wasn't talking about maintenance,
>>>
>>> So? He wasn't talking about improvements to the road system, but
>>> that didn't stop you.

>>
>> My comment referred to the fact that commuting has been made easier.

>
> Don't you think that roads in poor condition would make
> commuting harder? There's no point building a network of
> roads in every conceivable direction if they are badly maintained.
>
>>> So you actually have no argument against the fact that British roads
>>> are horrible unmaintained?

>>
>> On the contrary UK roads are mostly very well maintained. As with any
>> subject there are always the odd exceptions. Perhaps you can cite
>> some examples of what you consider to be "horrible unmaintained"
>> roads?

>
> Horribly unmaintained roads are all around. There was a study of
> the condition of roads released not so long ago. It did not
> praise the road network quite as much as you are...


I'm not praising the standard of maintenance, merely challenging some
people's blind assumption that all roads are badly maintained. I'm willing
to accept that many local authorities "could do better", but that applies to
all employees everywhere.


  #105  
Old May 11th 05, 05:26 PM
Brimstone
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Depresion wrote:
> "Brimstone" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Depresion wrote:
>>> "Brimstone" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Depresion wrote:
>>>>> "Brimstone" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Contrary to popular mythology roads have been improved to allow
>>>>>> faster
>>>>>> speeds and railways are now carrying more people than ever
>>>>>> before, despite significant reductions in track mileage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 3/4 or UK's local roads are deteriorating year on year. We are
>>>>> £8.3 billon behind in road maintenance. By last year the plan was
>>>>> to have halted the deterioration but it hasn't happened and by
>>>>> 2010 we were
>>>>> to have caught up and removed the backlog unfortunately the first
>>>>> part was no where near achieved as about 50% of the money
>>>>> allocated
>>>>> for maintenance is being spent elsewhere on things like speed
>>>>> cushions, bus lanes, and what's laughably called our education
>>>>> system
>>>>> by local authorities. It's about time that money allocated by the
>>>>> national government for road maintenance is reserved only for use
>>>>> in actually maintaining roads.
>>>>
>>>> I wasn't talking about maintenance, but then you were aware of that
>>>> before your petulant little rant weren't you?.
>>>
>>> How can you make claims about "roads have been improved" when 3/4's
>>> of them are so badly maintained they are deteriorating and there is
>>> more than a six year backlog in fixing them.

>>
>> Because construction (i.e. provision of new roads, flyovers,
>> underpasses etc) is different from maintaining them and keeping them
>> in good order. Is that too difficult for you to understand?.

>
> As the general condition of 72% of roads is deteriorating (used for
> more than 75% of commuting) then the tiny amount of road building is
> hardly going to make for a general improvement. So if 72% of roads
> are deteriorating what percentage are actually improving or new?
> Quite clearly less than 30% and you some how expect that to offset
> the deterioration of the other roads.


Quite obviously the concept is too difficult for you.


  #106  
Old May 11th 05, 05:43 PM
Dan J.S.
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"Martin Brown" > wrote in message
...
> chris@ukaskew wrote:
>
>> "Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Here in the US the top story recently has been the large upward spike
>>>in gasoline prices. Some have predicted that gasoline will top
>>>$5/gallon by next year, up from $2.50/gallon today. Since you folks in
>>>Europe have had $5/gallon gas for years (thanks to high taxes),

>
> We have much more fuel efficient and refined cars.
>>
>> I'd be interested in how it compares if you factor in the average MPG of
>> cars on British roads with cars on US roads. I assume there is evidence
>> somewhere when the press always mentions US 'gas guzzlers'

>
> Yes. When I go to the US I try and hire a decent fast Japanese car. They
> work OK and although they would lose badly in a collision with an SUV or
> truck are much more pleasant to drive.
>
> Last time I was stuffed with a Pontiac GrandMA ~3.4L allegedly a popular
> choice according to the rental guy. So named because of the way it wheezes
> when going up hills. A basic manual UK Ford Mondeo 1.6 petrol would easily
> have left it standing. The automatic transmission was lousy, kick down
> wasn't properly adjusted - it had done about 3000 miles from new. The gas
> peddle altered the amount of engine noise with a 2s delay before anything
> useful was transmitted to the road wheels. Overtaking was best done after
> switching off the aircon. It had the turning circle of a supertanker,
> terrible understeer and the wheels squealed going round corners. The ride
> was soft and flaccid more like being on a ship. When I returned it 2000
> miles later it already needed an oil change. It guzzled fuel for a saloon
> car but that didn't matter because gas was so cheap and it had a huge
> tank.
>
> The bigger US cars and SUVs are even worse. "Quality" is apparently
> measured by the number of cup holders fitted to the vehicle.
>
> Regards,
> Martin Brown
>


I will agree with you that for most part, American cars may not be as
reliable as Japanese counterparts, especially Honda or Toyota. But I will
take that Pontiac over any Audi, VW or even Mercedes when it comes to
reliability. European cars are becoming a running jokes here in the U.S.
that they are extremely unreliable, and J.D. power long and short term
reliability reports (www.jdpower.com) back my statement.


  #107  
Old May 11th 05, 05:51 PM
Depresion
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"Brimstone" > wrote in message
...
> David Taylor wrote:
>> Brimstone > wrote on Tue, 10 May 2005 15:58:21
>> GMT:
>>> David Taylor wrote:
>>>> Brimstone > wrote on Tue, 10 May 2005 14:20:21
>>>> GMT:
>>>>> Depresion wrote:
>>>>>> 3/4 or UK's local roads are deteriorating year on year. We are
>>>>>> ?8.3 billon behind in road maintenance. By last year the plan was
>>>>>> to have halted the deterioration but it hasn't happened and by
>>>>>> 2010 we were to have caught up and removed the backlog
>>>>>> unfortunately the first part was no where near achieved as about
>>>>>> 50% of the money allocated for maintenance is being spent
>>>>>> elsewhere on things like speed cushions, bus lanes, and what's
>>>>>> laughably called our education system by local authorities. It's
>>>>>> about time that money allocated by the national government for
>>>>>> road maintenance is reserved only for use in actually
>>>>>> maintaining roads.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wasn't talking about maintenance,
>>>>
>>>> So? He wasn't talking about improvements to the road system, but
>>>> that didn't stop you.
>>>
>>> My comment referred to the fact that commuting has been made easier.

>>
>> Don't you think that roads in poor condition would make
>> commuting harder? There's no point building a network of
>> roads in every conceivable direction if they are badly maintained.
>>
>>>> So you actually have no argument against the fact that British roads
>>>> are horrible unmaintained?
>>>
>>> On the contrary UK roads are mostly very well maintained. As with any
>>> subject there are always the odd exceptions. Perhaps you can cite
>>> some examples of what you consider to be "horrible unmaintained"
>>> roads?

>>
>> Horribly unmaintained roads are all around. There was a study of
>> the condition of roads released not so long ago. It did not
>> praise the road network quite as much as you are...

>
> I'm not praising the standard of maintenance, merely challenging some
> people's blind assumption that all roads are badly maintained. I'm willing
> to accept that many local authorities "could do better", but that applies to
> all employees everywhere.


No one said all roads are badly maintained the ICE said 72% or roads (that form
more than 75% of commutes) aren't being adequately maintained.


  #108  
Old May 11th 05, 05:51 PM
Depresion
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Default


"Brimstone" > wrote in message
...
> Depresion wrote:
>> "Brimstone" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Depresion wrote:
>>>> "Brimstone" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> Depresion wrote:
>>>>>> "Brimstone" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Contrary to popular mythology roads have been improved to allow
>>>>>>> faster
>>>>>>> speeds and railways are now carrying more people than ever
>>>>>>> before, despite significant reductions in track mileage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3/4 or UK's local roads are deteriorating year on year. We are
>>>>>> £8.3 billon behind in road maintenance. By last year the plan was
>>>>>> to have halted the deterioration but it hasn't happened and by
>>>>>> 2010 we were
>>>>>> to have caught up and removed the backlog unfortunately the first
>>>>>> part was no where near achieved as about 50% of the money
>>>>>> allocated
>>>>>> for maintenance is being spent elsewhere on things like speed
>>>>>> cushions, bus lanes, and what's laughably called our education
>>>>>> system
>>>>>> by local authorities. It's about time that money allocated by the
>>>>>> national government for road maintenance is reserved only for use
>>>>>> in actually maintaining roads.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wasn't talking about maintenance, but then you were aware of that
>>>>> before your petulant little rant weren't you?.
>>>>
>>>> How can you make claims about "roads have been improved" when 3/4's
>>>> of them are so badly maintained they are deteriorating and there is
>>>> more than a six year backlog in fixing them.
>>>
>>> Because construction (i.e. provision of new roads, flyovers,
>>> underpasses etc) is different from maintaining them and keeping them
>>> in good order. Is that too difficult for you to understand?.

>>
>> As the general condition of 72% of roads is deteriorating (used for
>> more than 75% of commuting) then the tiny amount of road building is
>> hardly going to make for a general improvement. So if 72% of roads
>> are deteriorating what percentage are actually improving or new?
>> Quite clearly less than 30% and you some how expect that to offset
>> the deterioration of the other roads.

>
> Quite obviously the concept is too difficult for you.


The concept that a minority improvement out ways a majority decrease is
definitely something I can't agree with. We could build a nice 300 mile long
motorway in the Scottish highlands but as that's not part of the majority of
road users routes it isn't going to improve there commute what would improve
there commuting would be to fix the roads that are used on commutes. As the ICE
report makes it clear that more than 3/4s of commuting is done on the roads that
are under maintained then for the majority of people the commute is simply put
despite all your bleating like a well trained government sheep worse not better,
slower not quicker, more uncomfortable not more pleasant.


  #109  
Old May 11th 05, 06:01 PM
Robert Briggs
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Thomas Schäfer wrote:
> > wrote
>
> > As the map in your link below shows, Iceland is a European country
> > yet you list it with the countries of North America.

>
> Greenland too belongs to Europe (Danmark).
> In Germany there are several jokes about the geographic (and cultural)
> competence of US politicans (and their soldiers and *.org sites).
> Maybe the stories hold a grain of truth.


Well, judging by participation in the Eurovision Song Contest, Israel
has been part of Europe for a good while now.

How long before Oz is part of Europe, eh?
  #110  
Old May 11th 05, 07:14 PM
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Thomas Sch=E4fer wrote:
> > wrote
>
> > As the map in your link below shows, Iceland is a European country

yet
> > you list it with the countries of North America.

>
> Greenland too belongs to Europe (Danmark).


So, according to your logic, the Falklands are European too, they
belong to the UK.

> In Germany there are several jokes about the geographic (and

cultural)
> competence of US politicans (and their soldiers and *.org sites).
> Maybe the stories hold a grain of truth.
>=20
> Thomas


 




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