driver license for trailers?

I'm doing a little research. I just learned that in Ontario you need to
have a A-class drivers license to tow a trailer over 4,600 Kg (roughly
10,000 pounds). That's the same license to drive tractor-trailers, and you
need annual testing and periodic medicals to keep that license, plus you
need a three month course and a tractor-trailer rig to even take the test.

The issue is that a lot of racers use fifth wheel trailers to haul their
race cars, and they often have GVWR's over 11,000 pounds. It seems that up
here those guys are breaking the law since most don't have A licenses. What
are the rules in the US? Everybody thinks that if the tow vehicle is an RV
or if the trailer has living accomodations in the front it is exempt, but it
ain't...I double checked that!

thanks for any data...
Brian

"Brian" > wrote in message
...
> I'm doing a little research. I just learned that in Ontario you need to
> have a A-class drivers license to tow a trailer over 4,600 Kg (roughly
> 10,000 pounds). That's the same license to drive tractor-trailers, and
you
> need annual testing and periodic medicals to keep that license, plus you
> need a three month course and a tractor-trailer rig to even take the test.
>
> The issue is that a lot of racers use fifth wheel trailers to haul their
> race cars, and they often have GVWR's over 11,000 pounds. It seems that
up
> here those guys are breaking the law since most don't have A licenses.
What
> are the rules in the US? Everybody thinks that if the tow vehicle is an
RV
> or if the trailer has living accomodations in the front it is exempt, but
it
> ain't...I double checked that!
>

Have you ever heard of a cop pulling over a rig towing a 11,000 pound
trailer just to check to see if they have an A-class license? Have you ever
heard of a rig towing that which mangaged to reach, let alone violate,
the speed limit?

I think there's very little opportunity for someone to be caught who breaks
this law - as a result they all do it.

Ted

"Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Brian" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I'm doing a little research. I just learned that in Ontario you
need to
> > have a A-class drivers license to tow a trailer over 4,600 Kg
(roughly
> > 10,000 pounds). That's the same license to drive tractor-trailers,
and
> you
> > need annual testing and periodic medicals to keep that license, plus
you
> > need a three month course and a tractor-trailer rig to even take the
test.
> >
> > The issue is that a lot of racers use fifth wheel trailers to haul
their
> > race cars, and they often have GVWR's over 11,000 pounds. It seems
that
> up
> > here those guys are breaking the law since most don't have A
licenses.
> What
> > are the rules in the US? Everybody thinks that if the tow vehicle
is an
> RV
> > or if the trailer has living accomodations in the front it is
exempt, but
> it
> > ain't...I double checked that!
> >
>
> Have you ever heard of a cop pulling over a rig towing a 11,000 pound
> trailer just to check to see if they have an A-class license? Have
you ever
> heard of a rig towing that which mangaged to reach, let alone violate,
> the speed limit?
>
> I think there's very little opportunity for someone to be caught who
breaks
> this law - as a result they all do it.
>
> Ted
>
>
>
Ask people in Florida what happens when you drive over the class of
license. Yes getting stopped and weighed happens a LOT it depends on
where you are and what the local DOT folks have for time/equipment. Some
states it isn't a priority, others it is nearly a religion.
RVs are exempt from a LOT of the rules. That is how you end up with 90
year old sucking on oxygen driving converted Prevost buses....
Oh and FYI you do NOT have to do the annual testing or medicals IF your
not employed as a driver.
Steve W.





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Ted, yes it happens, has happened, will happen again. Specifically, a
routine check of a dually towing a fifth wheel, not overloaded, not
speeding. Driver had to call for an A-class license holder.

A big crackdown on trailers up here, particularly horse trailers, race
trailers and so on. Annual inspections and chains, mostly, but some on
licenses. I wondered what the equivalent rules are in the US. Do you know?

Thanks,

Brian


"Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Brian" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I'm doing a little research. I just learned that in Ontario you need to
>> have a A-class drivers license to tow a trailer over 4,600 Kg (roughly
>> 10,000 pounds). That's the same license to drive tractor-trailers, and
> you
>> need annual testing and periodic medicals to keep that license, plus you
>> need a three month course and a tractor-trailer rig to even take the
>> test.
>>
>> The issue is that a lot of racers use fifth wheel trailers to haul their
>> race cars, and they often have GVWR's over 11,000 pounds. It seems that
> up
>> here those guys are breaking the law since most don't have A licenses.
> What
>> are the rules in the US? Everybody thinks that if the tow vehicle is an
> RV
>> or if the trailer has living accomodations in the front it is exempt, but
> it
>> ain't...I double checked that!
>>
>
> Have you ever heard of a cop pulling over a rig towing a 11,000 pound
> trailer just to check to see if they have an A-class license? Have you
> ever
> heard of a rig towing that which mangaged to reach, let alone violate,
> the speed limit?
>
> I think there's very little opportunity for someone to be caught who
> breaks
> this law - as a result they all do it.
>
> Ted
>
>

I checked four states (actually three states and a commonwealth) yesterday,
and found that there is an ambiguous recreational vehicle exemption that a
lot of racers use to get around the rules. RV's are exempt from a CDL
requirement, but RV's aren't defined. One assumes that an RV is a
motorhome/camper, but there is a loophole that an rv is any ehicle used for
personal recreation, including going to races. There is also a loophole
that if your trailer, etc, is not used for commerce you may be exempt.

The confusing thing is that these nuggets of information are scattered about
the websites of these states. The CDL sections actually mirrored our laws
fairly closely - if your towed vehicle is over 10,000 lbs, you need an A
license. If your single vehicle is over 26,000 lbs you need a lesser grade
(B or D)license. The question is whether you can wrangle an exemption based
on RV status or non-commercial status.

My trailer isn't over 10,000 lbs GVWR, so I'm just going to get it
inspected, do a driver log and probably not be stopped - I never have been
and I don't speed with it, so I probably never will be.

Cheers, Brian
"lugnut" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:20:15 -0500, "Brian"
> > wrote:
>
>>Ted, yes it happens, has happened, will happen again. Specifically, a
>>routine check of a dually towing a fifth wheel, not overloaded, not
>>speeding. Driver had to call for an A-class license holder.
>>
>>A big crackdown on trailers up here, particularly horse trailers, race
>>trailers and so on. Annual inspections and chains, mostly, but some on
>>licenses. I wondered what the equivalent rules are in the US. Do you
>>know?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Brian
>>
>
> In the USA, it is a CDL - Commercial Driver License. It is
> required for vehicles with a GVWR or GCWR of 26,001 lb or
> greater or, for vehicles designed to transport more than 15
> passengers. It is also req'd for air braked vehicles which
> are almost all over the above requirements. IIRC, it also
> is required for drivers of hazardous material transport
> vehicles over 8,500 lb. In the case of a vehicle that you
> own and operate strictly for personal use like a large RV,
> you are allowed to self certify if the vehicle is covered
> but, you must still take the written exams. In the case of
> an 11,000 lb trailer where the GCWR of it and the tow
> vehicle do not exceed 26,000 lb, no CDL is required. Along
> with the CDL are annual physical requirements and other work
> related rules. These are general rules with several
> exceptions which I am not going into. The info is out
> there.
>
>>
>>"Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>> "Brian" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> I'm doing a little research. I just learned that in Ontario you need
>>>> to
>>>> have a A-class drivers license to tow a trailer over 4,600 Kg (roughly
>>>> 10,000 pounds). That's the same license to drive tractor-trailers, and
>>> you
>>>> need annual testing and periodic medicals to keep that license, plus
>>>> you
>>>> need a three month course and a tractor-trailer rig to even take the
>>>> test.
>>>>
>>>> The issue is that a lot of racers use fifth wheel trailers to haul
>>>> their
>>>> race cars, and they often have GVWR's over 11,000 pounds. It seems
>>>> that
>>> up
>>>> here those guys are breaking the law since most don't have A licenses.
>>> What
>>>> are the rules in the US? Everybody thinks that if the tow vehicle is
>>>> an
>>> RV
>>>> or if the trailer has living accomodations in the front it is exempt,
>>>> but
>>> it
>>>> ain't...I double checked that!
>>>>
>>>
>>> Have you ever heard of a cop pulling over a rig towing a 11,000 pound
>>> trailer just to check to see if they have an A-class license? Have you
>>> ever
>>> heard of a rig towing that which mangaged to reach, let alone violate,
>>> the speed limit?
>>>
>>> I think there's very little opportunity for someone to be caught who
>>> breaks
>>> this law - as a result they all do it.
>>>
>>> Ted
>>>
>>>
>>
>

CDL is federal BUT the states can alter a LOT of things within thier
borders.
In NY.
RVs are exempt, Volunteer firefighters are exempt, Farm vehicles are
exempt. The BIG item is if your being paid to haul something.

--
Steve Williams

"lugnut" > wrote in message
...
> Brian,
>
> In the US, the CDL is a federal program with few options
> left to the states. That is not to say that individual
> interpretations do not occur. You may want to check the
> below URL's for a bit more info. I don't know whether you
> are concerned about US or Canada. It is quite possible that
> NAFTA rules will also affect you if you operate in both.
> There is also a medical physical component to the CDL. I
> understand you are currently "logging" as a commercial
> driver. If you are not sure whether you are req'd to have a
> commercial license, it may be best that you don't even log
> to avoid this being used against you a evidence that you
> knew you were possibly in violation of the requirements. I
> would also suggest that your vehicle not display any sort of
> advertising as it is easy to construe this as commercial
> even though it may only represent your farm. If you think
> you may be covered, you need to get direct counsel from your
> home jurisdiction. You also need to keep in mind that the
> weight requirements in the US apply to the GCWR - not just
> the weight of the trailer.
>
> http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safetyprogs/cdl.htm
>
> http://www.truckingsafety.org/faq/faqlicense.htm
>
> http://www.aitaonline.com/CDL%20Requirements.html
>
>
> Good luck
> Lugnut
>
> On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 11:31:57 -0500, "Brian"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"lugnut" > wrote in message
> .. .
> >> On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:20:15 -0500, "Brian"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>>Ted, yes it happens, has happened, will happen again.
Specifically, a
> >>>routine check of a dually towing a fifth wheel, not overloaded, not
> >>>speeding. Driver had to call for an A-class license holder.
> >>>
> >>>A big crackdown on trailers up here, particularly horse trailers,
race
> >>>trailers and so on. Annual inspections and chains, mostly, but
some on
> >>>licenses. I wondered what the equivalent rules are in the US. Do
you
> >>>know?
> >>>
> >>>Thanks,
> >>>
> >>>Brian
> >>>
> >>
> >> In the USA, it is a CDL - Commercial Driver License. It is
> >> required for vehicles with a GVWR or GCWR of 26,001 lb or
> >> greater or, for vehicles designed to transport more than 15
> >> passengers. It is also req'd for air braked vehicles which
> >> are almost all over the above requirements. IIRC, it also
> >> is required for drivers of hazardous material transport
> >> vehicles over 8,500 lb. In the case of a vehicle that you
> >> own and operate strictly for personal use like a large RV,
> >> you are allowed to self certify if the vehicle is covered
> >> but, you must still take the written exams. In the case of
> >> an 11,000 lb trailer where the GCWR of it and the tow
> >> vehicle do not exceed 26,000 lb, no CDL is required. Along
> >> with the CDL are annual physical requirements and other work
> >> related rules. These are general rules with several
> >> exceptions which I am not going into. The info is out
> >> there.
> >>
>



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i believe there's a physical check required for rigs around 17,000 pounds
not a cdl but still a medical check.
i got rid of my big stuff because of that. (and some other issues)
just my 2 cents, sam in pennsy.


"lugnut" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:20:15 -0500, "Brian"
> > wrote:
>
> >Ted, yes it happens, has happened, will happen again. Specifically, a
> >routine check of a dually towing a fifth wheel, not overloaded, not
> >speeding. Driver had to call for an A-class license holder.
> >
> >A big crackdown on trailers up here, particularly horse trailers, race
> >trailers and so on. Annual inspections and chains, mostly, but some on
> >licenses. I wondered what the equivalent rules are in the US. Do you
know?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Brian
> >
>
> In the USA, it is a CDL - Commercial Driver License. It is
> required for vehicles with a GVWR or GCWR of 26,001 lb or
> greater or, for vehicles designed to transport more than 15
> passengers. It is also req'd for air braked vehicles which
> are almost all over the above requirements. IIRC, it also
> is required for drivers of hazardous material transport
> vehicles over 8,500 lb. In the case of a vehicle that you
> own and operate strictly for personal use like a large RV,
> you are allowed to self certify if the vehicle is covered
> but, you must still take the written exams. In the case of
> an 11,000 lb trailer where the GCWR of it and the tow
> vehicle do not exceed 26,000 lb, no CDL is required. Along
> with the CDL are annual physical requirements and other work
> related rules. These are general rules with several
> exceptions which I am not going into. The info is out
> there.
>
> >
> >"Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >> "Brian" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>> I'm doing a little research. I just learned that in Ontario you need
to
> >>> have a A-class drivers license to tow a trailer over 4,600 Kg (roughly
> >>> 10,000 pounds). That's the same license to drive tractor-trailers,
and
> >> you
> >>> need annual testing and periodic medicals to keep that license, plus
you
> >>> need a three month course and a tractor-trailer rig to even take the
> >>> test.
> >>>
> >>> The issue is that a lot of racers use fifth wheel trailers to haul
their
> >>> race cars, and they often have GVWR's over 11,000 pounds. It seems
that
> >> up
> >>> here those guys are breaking the law since most don't have A licenses.
> >> What
> >>> are the rules in the US? Everybody thinks that if the tow vehicle is
an
> >> RV
> >>> or if the trailer has living accomodations in the front it is exempt,
but
> >> it
> >>> ain't...I double checked that!
> >>>
> >>
> >> Have you ever heard of a cop pulling over a rig towing a 11,000 pound
> >> trailer just to check to see if they have an A-class license? Have you
> >> ever
> >> heard of a rig towing that which mangaged to reach, let alone violate,
> >> the speed limit?
> >>
> >> I think there's very little opportunity for someone to be caught who
> >> breaks
> >> this law - as a result they all do it.
> >>
> >> Ted
> >>
> >>
> >
>

The physical is required with a CDL, IF you are driving a vehicle for
hire. If your driving you car or P/U you don't need it.
Thing I would like to see is eliminating the RV exemption crap.
Just scares me that a 90 year old sucking on an oxygen tank can be
driving a Prevost conversion bus down the highway at 75 mph with NO
testing.

--
Steve Williams

"SAMMMMM" > wrote in message
...
> i believe there's a physical check required for rigs around 17,000
pounds
> not a cdl but still a medical check.
> i got rid of my big stuff because of that. (and some other issues)
> just my 2 cents, sam in pennsy.
>
>
> "lugnut" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:20:15 -0500, "Brian"
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >Ted, yes it happens, has happened, will happen again.
Specifically, a
> > >routine check of a dually towing a fifth wheel, not overloaded, not
> > >speeding. Driver had to call for an A-class license holder.
> > >
> > >A big crackdown on trailers up here, particularly horse trailers,
race
> > >trailers and so on. Annual inspections and chains, mostly, but
some on
> > >licenses. I wondered what the equivalent rules are in the US. Do
you
> know?
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >
> > >Brian
> > >
> >
> > In the USA, it is a CDL - Commercial Driver License. It is
> > required for vehicles with a GVWR or GCWR of 26,001 lb or
> > greater or, for vehicles designed to transport more than 15
> > passengers. It is also req'd for air braked vehicles which
> > are almost all over the above requirements. IIRC, it also
> > is required for drivers of hazardous material transport
> > vehicles over 8,500 lb. In the case of a vehicle that you
> > own and operate strictly for personal use like a large RV,
> > you are allowed to self certify if the vehicle is covered
> > but, you must still take the written exams. In the case of
> > an 11,000 lb trailer where the GCWR of it and the tow
> > vehicle do not exceed 26,000 lb, no CDL is required. Along
> > with the CDL are annual physical requirements and other work
> > related rules. These are general rules with several
> > exceptions which I am not going into. The info is out
> > there.
> >
> > >
> > >"Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >>
> > >> "Brian" > wrote in message
> > >> ...
> > >>> I'm doing a little research. I just learned that in Ontario you
need
> to
> > >>> have a A-class drivers license to tow a trailer over 4,600 Kg
(roughly
> > >>> 10,000 pounds). That's the same license to drive
tractor-trailers,
> and
> > >> you
> > >>> need annual testing and periodic medicals to keep that license,
plus
> you
> > >>> need a three month course and a tractor-trailer rig to even take
the
> > >>> test.
> > >>>
> > >>> The issue is that a lot of racers use fifth wheel trailers to
haul
> their
> > >>> race cars, and they often have GVWR's over 11,000 pounds. It
seems
> that
> > >> up
> > >>> here those guys are breaking the law since most don't have A
licenses.
> > >> What
> > >>> are the rules in the US? Everybody thinks that if the tow
vehicle is
> an
> > >> RV
> > >>> or if the trailer has living accomodations in the front it is
exempt,
> but
> > >> it
> > >>> ain't...I double checked that!
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Have you ever heard of a cop pulling over a rig towing a 11,000
pound
> > >> trailer just to check to see if they have an A-class license?
Have you
> > >> ever
> > >> heard of a rig towing that which mangaged to reach, let alone
violate,
> > >> the speed limit?
> > >>
> > >> I think there's very little opportunity for someone to be caught
who
> > >> breaks
> > >> this law - as a result they all do it.
> > >>
> > >> Ted
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
>



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