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Why were so many British cars positive earth?



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 23rd 05, 01:11 AM
Hugo Schmeisser
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M. MacDonald wrote:

> So were a lot of old 6 volt American cars prior to about 1955.
>
> Mack



Interesting. And do you know WHY that was done?
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  #12  
Old June 23rd 05, 03:26 AM
Chas Hurst
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"Hugo Schmeisser" > wrote in message
...
> This is all very interesting, to be sure. But nobody has answered my
> question of WHY?
>
> Was the positive-earth setup the result of a flawed understanding of
> electricity? Or was there some other reason to choose this layout?


Because the British didn't know better.


  #14  
Old June 23rd 05, 04:00 AM
y_p_w
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Hugo Schmeisser wrote:

> y_p_w wrote:
>
>
wrote:
>>
>>>"John Kunkel" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Anybody know? (Besides "because they were British", that is...)
>>>>
>>>>It actually makes more sense (to me) to have a positive ground
>>>>since DC current flows from negative to positive.
>>>
>>>
>>>No, actually it does not, John. DC flows from positive to negative,
>>>by convention.
>>>Electrons from from negative to positive, but electron flow is not
>>>defined as current.

>>
>>Back in my days as an electrical engineering student, we referred to
>>positive current as the movement of "holes", and negative current as
>>the movement of electrons. Of course everything has to do with the
>>mass movement of electrons, but the convention of "positive current"
>>never changed.
>>
>>Electrons and holes are also used to describe semiconductor doping.

>
>
>
>
> This is all very interesting, to be sure. But nobody has answered my
> question of WHY?
>
> Was the positive-earth setup the result of a flawed understanding of
> electricity? Or was there some other reason to choose this layout?


There's no flawed understanding of electricity. They probably just
decided to go that way. There's no particular reason why a common
grounding point has to be "positive" or "negative". There's no
reason why we couldn't just switch everything such that "positive"
current couldn't be switched towards the flow of electrons. These
things were adopted by convention and haven't changed because most
people prefer a "common language".
  #15  
Old June 23rd 05, 04:43 AM
the fly
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On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:10:18 -0500, "Hugo Schmeisser"
> wrote:
>
>This is all very interesting, to be sure. But nobody has answered my
>question of WHY?
>
>Was the positive-earth setup the result of a flawed understanding of
>electricity? Or was there some other reason to choose this layout?


Maybe not a "flawed understanding," but a change in theory
about electricity.
In school, studying automotive technology years ago, we were
told that the change from positive to negative grounding had to do
with electrical theory. I'm not enough of a physics major to make it
perfectly clear, but it had to do with whether current flows from
positive to negative, or from negative to positive. (And CURRENT flow
is not necessarily defined as ELECTRON flow).
Apparently there was a discovery or new understanding about
the basic nature of electricity, some time just before most auto
makers changed over from positive grounds to negative grounds. I
don't remember enough detail, but there was thought to be an advantage
to having it wired in a particular manner.
Most U.S. vehicles were changed in the middle 1950s. The
Brits came along about 5 years later.
  #16  
Old June 23rd 05, 04:46 AM
Jon C
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AZ Nomad wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:25:01 -0400, Ototin > wrote:
>
>
>
>>On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:56:23 -0500, ray > wrote:

>
>
>>>Hugo Schmeisser wrote:
>>>
>>>>I did some Googling and came up with nothing. Hard to believe no one
>>>>else has apparently ever asked this question. Or maybe I'm looking in
>>>>the wrong place.
>>>>
>>>>Anybody know? (Besides "because they were British", that is...)
>>>
>>>probably the same reason that Honda engines spin backwards.
>>>Because that's the way they did it?
>>>
>>>I'd like to know why the hot wire in car wiring is red and the ground
>>>wire is black, but at home it's the black wire that's hot.

>
>
>>In house wiring the red wire is also "hot".

>
>
> Black is hot, IIRC.
> White is neutral.
>
> Red is only used for three plus ground as in wiring for a 3-way (three terminal
> actually) switch.


How do you figure one wire is hot while the other is neutral in AC wiring?
  #17  
Old June 23rd 05, 05:01 AM
Paul Hovnanian
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Jon C wrote:
>
> AZ Nomad wrote:
> > On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:25:01 -0400, Ototin > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:56:23 -0500, ray > wrote:

> >
> >
> >>>Hugo Schmeisser wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>I did some Googling and came up with nothing. Hard to believe no one
> >>>>else has apparently ever asked this question. Or maybe I'm looking in
> >>>>the wrong place.
> >>>>
> >>>>Anybody know? (Besides "because they were British", that is...)
> >>>
> >>>probably the same reason that Honda engines spin backwards.
> >>>Because that's the way they did it?
> >>>
> >>>I'd like to know why the hot wire in car wiring is red and the ground
> >>>wire is black, but at home it's the black wire that's hot.

> >
> >
> >>In house wiring the red wire is also "hot".

> >
> >
> > Black is hot, IIRC.
> > White is neutral.
> >
> > Red is only used for three plus ground as in wiring for a 3-way (three terminal
> > actually) switch.

>
> How do you figure one wire is hot while the other is neutral in AC wiring?


The neutral is bonded to ground in the distribution panel.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
"The beauty of a chainsaw is that you don't have to start it. Just
show up with it." - Joe Walsh, on checking in to hotels
  #18  
Old June 23rd 05, 05:10 AM
Paul Hovnanian
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the fly wrote:
>
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:10:18 -0500, "Hugo Schmeisser"
> > wrote:
> >
> >This is all very interesting, to be sure. But nobody has answered my
> >question of WHY?
> >
> >Was the positive-earth setup the result of a flawed understanding of
> >electricity? Or was there some other reason to choose this layout?

>
> Maybe not a "flawed understanding," but a change in theory
> about electricity.
> In school, studying automotive technology years ago, we were
> told that the change from positive to negative grounding had to do
> with electrical theory. I'm not enough of a physics major to make it
> perfectly clear, but it had to do with whether current flows from
> positive to negative, or from negative to positive. (And CURRENT flow
> is not necessarily defined as ELECTRON flow).
> Apparently there was a discovery or new understanding about
> the basic nature of electricity, some time just before most auto
> makers changed over from positive grounds to negative grounds. I
> don't remember enough detail, but there was thought to be an advantage
> to having it wired in a particular manner.
> Most U.S. vehicles were changed in the middle 1950s. The
> Brits came along about 5 years later.


It should make no difference to the operation of electrical equipment
which polarity one chooses for ground. However, potential differences
between two pieces of metal may result in corrosion of one or the other.
By forcing one to a higher or lower potential, one can inhibit this
effect. It is possible that positive grounds cause undesireable
corrosion and reversing the polarity stopped or slowed it.


Just a guess.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
  #19  
Old June 23rd 05, 11:02 AM
Nate Nagel
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AZ Nomad wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:27:18 -0700, John Kunkel > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>"Hugo Schmeisser" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>I did some Googling and came up with nothing. Hard to believe no one
>>>else has apparently ever asked this question. Or maybe I'm looking in
>>>the wrong place.
>>>
>>>Anybody know? (Besides "because they were British", that is...)

>
>
>>It actually makes more sense (to me) to have a positive ground since DC
>>current flows from negative to positive.

>
>
>
> DC flows in a circle. It makes absolutely no difference which side you use
> as your reference.


Actually it does when you finally get to the coil. Other than that
you're right there's not much difference.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
  #20  
Old June 23rd 05, 11:27 AM
external usenet poster
 
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Default



>
> It should make no difference to the operation of electrical equipment
> which polarity one chooses for ground. However, potential differences
> between two pieces of metal may result in corrosion of one or the other.
> By forcing one to a higher or lower potential, one can inhibit this
> effect. It is possible that positive grounds cause undesireable
> corrosion and reversing the polarity stopped or slowed it.
>
>
> Just a guess.


Good guess.. corrosion is a problem in positive ground vehicles.

Jim

 




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