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156 problems filling up the petrol?



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 13th 04, 10:45 PM
Catman
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Pete wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:00:02 GMT, Catman
> >, wrote:
>
>>Pete wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 20:40:32 GMT, NC >, wrote:
>>>
>>>>Surely he means grounded via the nozzle . handle, not the shoes.
>>> and the nozzle would be connected to the pump by a hose made of ?
>>>

>>Well, something conductive, obviously. Oh. Right. As you were
>>
>>Actually, to be fair, it *could* be conductive, but the handle is (IME)
>>covered in plastic anyway......

>
> I thought you might like that one <BWG>


You know me to well
> G'night folks


gnight jim-bob
:>

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  #22  
Old July 14th 04, 04:33 PM
MeatballTurbo
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In article >, iowna156
@alfa.com says...
> On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 16:11:41 +0100, MeatballTurbo
> >, wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> says...
> >> >
> >> > for petrol in the UK, we don't get no choice. Locking nozzles are
> >> > banned. You have to stand there with trigger held in for "Safety"
> >> > reasons.
> >> >
> >> > I think it is because it stops fuel getting spilled if the vac/pressure
> >> > autocuttoff fails (I had that actually happen at a pump once, and ended
> >> > up with a petrol soaked shoe).
> >>
> >> The solution to the lack of locking nozzles is to jam the filler cap
> >> inside the handle. The 156 cap works a treat.
> >>
> >> Fuel station operatives tend not to like you doing it for the reasons
> >> you mention (possible spillage) so I tend not to wander too far. Most
> >> petrol stations have such slow pumps that it does save you having to
> >> hold the handle for ages. Best regards
> >>
> >> Joe
> >> 156 2.0l TS
> >>

> >Is the 156 cap a screw in plastic thread? I'm sure when I bought a
> >Halfords locking cap for the Saab it shared a part number with a locking
> >cap for one Alfa or another?

>
> http://www.digest.net/alfa/FAQ/164/pb87/pb87.htm
> "The 164 is part of the "Type 4" project jointly developed by Fiat, Lancia,
> Saab and Alfa Romeo for the design and construction of a medium-to-big
> saloon frame. "
>
> Pete
>

Nah, my Saab is older than the 164/9000. It's an old T16S 900, the
strange humpy one with front handbrake, huge amounts of lag, and a
mental 3rd gear 40-90 surge, or 4th gear 50-90 faster than a ferrari
308. Just has a bit of a drink problem, hence looking to sell, and
considering either an 8v 155, a 164 or a 75 amongst the Alfas (although
the 9000 Aero, and the Honda Prelude VTEC generation 4 are also in the
running). They are all drivers cars, but they are also generally
undervalued for what they can do (though some more than others), all
have wonderful looks in their own ways, and with the exception of the
Honda are all camchain engines of arround the 2-2.3 litre size.

Hondas seem to do better with belts than other makes, and depending on
how you drive drive, you either have a 5.5k shopping cart that sips like
a granny with sweet sherry, or take it into VTEC country and hit 7.5k
and get back 195BHP, with 4wheel steer. and should make mid 30's average
if driven like I normally do.

The Saab 2.3 225BHP Aero turbo engine that is a 25 year evolution just
like the Afa twinks, and because the aeros has so much more torque they
are geared higher and make 40mpg on a run, and mid 30's mixed.

The Alfas are much maligned and a bargain to buy, the camchain engines
run well with maintenance as a good engine should be, they don't rot,
and the perforance is spirited with good economy again I expect low to
mid 30's for a 2litre TS.

All three will provide much better economy than the old 900 that just
about nudges 32-33 on a good run, and 29 average, plus it is starting to
generally get a little run down. Would make someone an easy rolling
resto if they wanted a very early example of a T16 (haven't seen a 16v
earlier than a C reg, mine is a B (introduced at motorshows in 1984,
mostly registered in 85, mine is actually registered 84), but If I was
to spend the kind of money it would take to put right at an independant
I could buy a newer more economical car for similar money, but someone
who has a workshop and a pit/lift and a better toolkit/power equipment
and more marque knowledge than I have could fix it up probably in a 2-3
three days with just the parts/materials costs. so I guess it is time to
move on.
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  #23  
Old July 15th 04, 07:51 AM
has.mac
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Just a few examples below:

http://www.jeffreybarnes.com/fire0229.html

http://www.sema.state.mo.us/static%20car%20fires02.pdf

http://www.pei.org/static/

The grounding will take place through the metal parts of the pump like the
trigger or the trigger guard, which aren't generally covered in plastic,
then through the pump nozzle to the filler surround, then to the rest of the
car.

has.mac


  #24  
Old July 15th 04, 11:04 AM
MeatballTurbo
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In article >,
ants says...
>
> Just a few examples below:
>
>
http://www.jeffreybarnes.com/fire0229.html
>
> http://www.sema.state.mo.us/static%20car%20fires02.pdf
>
> http://www.pei.org/static/
>
> The grounding will take place through the metal parts of the pump like the
> trigger or the trigger guard, which aren't generally covered in plastic,
> then through the pump nozzle to the filler surround, then to the rest of the
> car.
>
> has.mac
>
>
>

but the car isn't grounded, it is held up by 4 big rubber things.
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  #25  
Old July 15th 04, 01:43 PM
has.mac
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"MeatballTurbo" > wrote in message
t...
> but the car isn't grounded, it is held up by 4 big rubber things.
> --


The car is the ground. It is an electrical ground relative to the static
potential built up on your body. It doesn't need to be metallically
connected to the Earth.

Anyway, looking into it more, fuel pump hoses are actually required to
contain a ground path in the hose which electrically connects the pump to
the nozzle, so that will keep everything literally grounded.

So when you go to refuel, the first thing you touch is the car, removing the
filler cap, this generally gets rid of any potential between you and the
car. Then the pump nozzle, grounding yourself through the metal parts of the
nozzle, this then slots into the filler, grounding against the car through
the metal surround on the filler. Then everything, including you, is
electrically grounded via the conducting strip in the hose to the ground in
the pump, keeping everything at the same potential.

The problem arises with locking nozzles, or people jamming filler caps under
the trigger. People leave the pump and walk away to do something else, the
movement creates a static buildup, which then discharges when you return to
the pump. It doesn't happen all the time, it depends on loads of different
things as to how much charge you build up, but in a small number of cases,
there'll be enough of a static charge built up to make a spark with enough
energy to ignite fuel vapour.

OK, maybe seeing is believing, http://www.sfowler.com/static/pump%20fire.avi

has.mac









  #26  
Old July 15th 04, 03:39 PM
Catman
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has.mac wrote:

>
> "MeatballTurbo" > wrote in message
> t...
>> but the car isn't grounded, it is held up by 4 big rubber things.
>> --

>
> The car is the ground. It is an electrical ground relative to the static
> potential built up on your body. It doesn't need to be metallically
> connected to the Earth.
>
> Anyway, looking into it more, fuel pump hoses are actually required to
> contain a ground path in the hose which electrically connects the pump to
> the nozzle, so that will keep everything literally grounded.
>

Now that I can understand, if it's true (and I have no particular reason to
doubt you)

<snip>
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  #27  
Old July 15th 04, 09:27 PM
Pete
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On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:43:10 GMT, "has.mac" >,
wrote:

>The car is the ground. It is an electrical ground relative to the static
>potential built up on your body. It doesn't need to be metallically
>connected to the Earth.


This is, of course, the correct answer and has won this weeks prize for
ending a very tortuous thread. Thank you. :-)

Pete
--
>
156 2.0 TS (2001) - Proteo Rosso (his)
147 2.0 TS (2002) - Gem Green (her's)
  #29  
Old July 16th 04, 07:48 AM
has.mac
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"Pete" > wrote in message
...
>
> ending a very tortuous thread. Thank you. :-)
>


:-) I agree. Sorry for ranting. Should have tried to explain it better in my
first post.

has.mac


 




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