Cops Making Stuff Up

Was talking to a friend today. Seems he was a member of a Federal grand jury
for 18 months.

He said it was fun, but was not terribly happy with some people on the jury.
He's more of a "get the bad guys" sort of fellow... as am I, but...

It seems that in Virginia has a little known law that you can't hang _anything_
on the rear view mirror. So, when it came to be known that a cop's initial
contact was initiated by a stop for something hanging on a rear view mirror,
several - 5 or 6 of these grand jury members were incensed, and said, "That
just ain't right", and would vote to deny an indictment.

Apparently nobody really failed to get indicted because of this, but it does
show that people will only go along with bull**** just so far.

And, while it technically isn't making anything up to stop someone for this in
Virginia, the fact that it is pretty much only done to stop people so's the cop
can go ahead and ask to search the car is the really unfair thing - since most
people don't get stopped for it, hardly anyone knows its not legal. And the
criminals, my friend observed, are such boneheads that they will agree to allow
a search, even tho they've got a quarter-ton of pot in the trunk, etc.

Now, if virtually everything weren't illegal in Virginia, I'd feel a lot better
about being here...

Dave Head

In article >,
Dave Head > wrote:
>Was talking to a friend today. Seems he was a member of a Federal grand jury
>for 18 months.
>
>He said it was fun, but was not terribly happy with some people on the jury.
>He's more of a "get the bad guys" sort of fellow... as am I, but...
>
>It seems that in Virginia has a little known law that you can't hang _anything_
>on the rear view mirror.

That's a common justification for traffic stops in Massachusetts.
The appeals court recently ruled that police had to prove that
the hanging object could interfere with driving.

--
John Carr )

On 27 Jun 2006 18:24:07 -0700, "Harry K" > wrote:

>
>Dave Head wrote:
>> Was talking to a friend today. Seems he was a member of a Federal grand jury
>> for 18 months.
>>
>> He said it was fun, but was not terribly happy with some people on the jury.
>> He's more of a "get the bad guys" sort of fellow... as am I, but...
>>
>> It seems that in Virginia has a little known law that you can't hang _anything_
>> on the rear view mirror. So, when it came to be known that a cop's initial
>> contact was initiated by a stop for something hanging on a rear view mirror,
>> several - 5 or 6 of these grand jury members were incensed, and said, "That
>> just ain't right", and would vote to deny an indictment.
>>
>> Apparently nobody really failed to get indicted because of this, but it does
>> show that people will only go along with bull**** just so far.
>>
>> And, while it technically isn't making anything up to stop someone for this in
>> Virginia, the fact that it is pretty much only done to stop people so's the cop
>> can go ahead and ask to search the car is the really unfair thing - since most
>> people don't get stopped for it, hardly anyone knows its not legal. And the
>> criminals, my friend observed, are such boneheads that they will agree to allow
>> a search, even tho they've got a quarter-ton of pot in the trunk, etc.
>>
>> Now, if virtually everything weren't illegal in Virginia, I'd feel a lot better
>> about being here...
>>
>> Dave Head
>
>Kinda a long strain to claim that is 'making things up". Using it as
>an excuse - yes.
>
>Harry K

Well, yes and no - when you have a law that is applied selectively, its just
about the same thing as making something up. Kinda like a secret law,
especially when there's so many of 'em you'd have to go to school for a year or
2 to know about all of 'em. I dunno, but I'd bet that they also conflict in
such a way that you can't obey 'em all, either, if you dig deep enough into the
situation.

DPH

Dave Head wrote:

> >> It seems that in Virginia has a little known law that you can't hang _anything_
> >> on the rear view mirror.

I highly dislike "selectively" enforced laws myself.

But not hanging things in the field of view is a reasonable
requirement. Driving's tough enough as it is without dangly things in
the view. And if you allow some, you then have to figure out where
that grey judgement line is.

In crowded traffic, I once suggested to a cop that he "advise" a car
behind me. This guy had a for sale sign in the windshield that
occupied about 25% of the windshield, smack in the center.

OK, that's a stretch from a garter on the mirror, but where is the
line?

Just keep the windows clear. It's a car, not a bedroom mirror.

In article . com>, Harry K wrote:

> Kinda a long strain to claim that is 'making things up". Using it as
> an excuse - yes.

The OP should have put the word 'effectively' or 'effective' in the subject.

Ticky-tacky laws selectively enforced is effectively equal to making up
the law as you go along. Which is what tool laws, creative
interpetations and just plain selective enforcement is all about.

In article .com>, wrote:
> But not hanging things in the field of view is a reasonable
> requirement.

Have you looked inside a police cruiser recently? Lots of crap in the
field of view.

"Dave Head" > wrote in message
news
> Was talking to a friend today. Seems he was a member of a Federal grand
> jury
> for 18 months.
>
> He said it was fun, but was not terribly happy with some people on the
> jury.
> He's more of a "get the bad guys" sort of fellow... as am I, but...
>
> It seems that in Virginia has a little known law that you can't hang
> _anything_
> on the rear view mirror. So, when it came to be known that a cop's
> initial
> contact was initiated by a stop for something hanging on a rear view
> mirror,
> several - 5 or 6 of these grand jury members were incensed, and said,
> "That
> just ain't right", and would vote to deny an indictment.
>
> Apparently nobody really failed to get indicted because of this, but it
> does
> show that people will only go along with bull**** just so far.
>
> And, while it technically isn't making anything up to stop someone for
> this in
> Virginia, the fact that it is pretty much only done to stop people so's
> the cop
> can go ahead and ask to search the car is the really unfair thing - since
> most
> people don't get stopped for it, hardly anyone knows its not legal. And
> the
> criminals, my friend observed, are such boneheads that they will agree to
> allow
> a search, even tho they've got a quarter-ton of pot in the trunk, etc.
>
> Now, if virtually everything weren't illegal in Virginia, I'd feel a lot
> better
> about being here...

So....... which part was "cops making stuff up"?

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

"There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of
evil men." - Edmund Burke

"Dave Head" > wrote in message
news
>
> It seems that in Virginia has a little known law that you can't hang
> _anything_
> on the rear view mirror.

Here you can't have anything sticking to the windscreen. But by law you have
to stick a tax disc to it. Work that one out.

On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 06:42:53 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:

>
>"Dave Head" > wrote in message
>news
>> Was talking to a friend today. Seems he was a member of a Federal grand
>> jury
>> for 18 months.
>>
>> He said it was fun, but was not terribly happy with some people on the
>> jury.
>> He's more of a "get the bad guys" sort of fellow... as am I, but...
>>
>> It seems that in Virginia has a little known law that you can't hang
>> _anything_
>> on the rear view mirror. So, when it came to be known that a cop's
>> initial
>> contact was initiated by a stop for something hanging on a rear view
>> mirror,
>> several - 5 or 6 of these grand jury members were incensed, and said,
>> "That
>> just ain't right", and would vote to deny an indictment.
>>
>> Apparently nobody really failed to get indicted because of this, but it
>> does
>> show that people will only go along with bull**** just so far.
>>
>> And, while it technically isn't making anything up to stop someone for
>> this in
>> Virginia, the fact that it is pretty much only done to stop people so's
>> the cop
>> can go ahead and ask to search the car is the really unfair thing - since
>> most
>> people don't get stopped for it, hardly anyone knows its not legal. And
>> the
>> criminals, my friend observed, are such boneheads that they will agree to
>> allow
>> a search, even tho they've got a quarter-ton of pot in the trunk, etc.
>>
>> Now, if virtually everything weren't illegal in Virginia, I'd feel a lot
>> better
>> about being here...
>
>So....... which part was "cops making stuff up"?

Its like this.

The law _isn't_ what is written, its what's enforced.

The law still on the books that someone has to walk in front of each "horseless
carraige" while ringing a bell to warn of its approach isn't a law because it
isn't enforced. Its just a novelty.

The law against something like stuff hanging from the mirror isn't really a
law, because it isn't enforced.

But then, just 'cuz its convenient, a cop decides it is, and uses it as a
pretext, selectively enforcing the non-law that's still on the books.

But I'm sure you won't understand... <G>

Dave Head

On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 07:55:16 +0100, "Mark Hewitt"
> wrote:

>
>"Dave Head" > wrote in message
>news
>>
>> It seems that in Virginia has a little known law that you can't hang
>> _anything_
>> on the rear view mirror.
>
>Here you can't have anything sticking to the windscreen. But by law you have
>to stick a tax disc to it. Work that one out.

Yeah, stuff like that - I'm sure there's got to be some situations where cops
sit behind someone, somewhere, where they're quirky laws, and say to
themselves, "Well, if he goes straight, I got him because of law A, if he goes
left, I got him because of law B, and if he goes right, I got him because of
law C... and if he backs up, I'm sure I can think of something!

DPH
>