2000 SL1 Broken wires

Well, I think I deserved this: previously I owned another GM rust
bucket (1982 Century), and aside from the usual issues it had, the most
annoying one was wires (that is, electrical wires) that tended to break
wherever they flexed the most (doors, trunk, and to a much lesser
extent, the hood).

So, last night, when the weather was relatively comfortable (above
freezing, where here we are in deep freeze most of the winter) I
checked the exterior bulbs for any of them blown.
Lo and behold, one of the rear license plate bulbs was out. Easy, I
thought, just get a replacement and be done. To be sure, I buzzed the
bulb - blown. Got a replacement, plugged in - no joy. Scratch the head
a bit, checked for voltage presence - nope. Hmmm...
Started tracing the wires, and what do you know: where they flex the
most (on this car, they followed the left trunk arm and then split and
ended in a connector) 3 out of 8 (yes, three) were completely
separated, with another one having a split insulation and copper
showing.
Bloody GM were saving a penny on not-so-stranded wires (probably 5-7
strands of 22 or 24 AWG, where they should have at least 30 of 30 AWG
or thinner), with the knowledge that these will fail after 5-7 years of
service.

My advice to any of you with cars in that age range (5-7 years or
older) and with a malfunctioning equipment mounted in the doors
(whatever that may be: light switch, speakers, electric locks) - check
them wires for broken (or worst - exposed copper) insulation and
copper.
This is a hazard that may turn into a fireball - I'm not kidding: these
wire are on theinside of the trunk, possibly very close to the gas
fill-up. All you need is a good spark, some flammable material, and
voila - you got yourself a slightly scorched trunk. Beware.

I wonder if this should be further reported? Your opinion/s?

I wouldn't so much worry about gas fumes if all is functioning properly. The
fuel fill is supposed to be gasketed against any fumes entering the body and
ventilated to the outside. Evaporative fumes from the tank are supposed to
be routed to the adsorptive canister. The use of a moderately inflexible
wire loom is a pain for us owners but it only *has* to make it through the
warranty period

Arthur Hailey made a good point in the book "Wheels" a 'fictional' account
about design and marketing in the auto industry about cutting costs. If it
cost an extra penny to make it last longer than it absolutely had to, well,
that just came off the profits and just won't do. (I saw the TV mini-series
and it missed some of the good points)

Then there are safety vs. maintainability costs. I was just looking at
replacing the heater core. While the placement of the plumbing and core
makes for a rather easy replacement, there is a potential scalding hazard to
a front seat passenger if the plumbing ever breaches under operating
conditions. Will the installed shrouds adequately divert boiling coolant
spray? I wouldn't like to try it.

Engineering and manufacturing are, unfortunately, dictated by the costs of
what we are willing to pay for and to a good extent, the lawyers.

Oppie

btw- what's the difference between a catfish and a lawyer?
One is a scum-sucking bottom-dweller... and the other is a fish.

There is really only one lawyer joke. All the rest are true.

"ns" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Well, I think I deserved this: previously I owned another GM rust
> bucket (1982 Century), and aside from the usual issues it had, the most
> annoying one was wires (that is, electrical wires) that tended to break
> wherever they flexed the most (doors, trunk, and to a much lesser
> extent, the hood).
>
> So, last night, when the weather was relatively comfortable (above
> freezing, where here we are in deep freeze most of the winter) I
> checked the exterior bulbs for any of them blown.
> Lo and behold, one of the rear license plate bulbs was out. Easy, I
> thought, just get a replacement and be done. To be sure, I buzzed the
> bulb - blown. Got a replacement, plugged in - no joy. Scratch the head
> a bit, checked for voltage presence - nope. Hmmm...
> Started tracing the wires, and what do you know: where they flex the
> most (on this car, they followed the left trunk arm and then split and
> ended in a connector) 3 out of 8 (yes, three) were completely
> separated, with another one having a split insulation and copper
> showing.
> Bloody GM were saving a penny on not-so-stranded wires (probably 5-7
> strands of 22 or 24 AWG, where they should have at least 30 of 30 AWG
> or thinner), with the knowledge that these will fail after 5-7 years of
> service.
>
> My advice to any of you with cars in that age range (5-7 years or
> older) and with a malfunctioning equipment mounted in the doors
> (whatever that may be: light switch, speakers, electric locks) - check
> them wires for broken (or worst - exposed copper) insulation and
> copper.
> This is a hazard that may turn into a fireball - I'm not kidding: these
> wire are on theinside of the trunk, possibly very close to the gas
> fill-up. All you need is a good spark, some flammable material, and
> voila - you got yourself a slightly scorched trunk. Beware.
>
> I wonder if this should be further reported? Your opinion/s?
>

"ns" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Well, I think I deserved this: previously I owned another GM rust
> bucket (1982 Century), and aside from the usual issues it had, the most
> annoying one was wires (that is, electrical wires) that tended to break
> wherever they flexed the most (doors, trunk, and to a much lesser
> extent, the hood).

Had the same experience with a '99 SL2... all the wires attached to the
trunk lid broke. I requested that the dealer replace the harness and they
spliced them... I was not a happy camper...

John

In article .com>, "ns" > wrote:

>Bloody GM were saving a penny on not-so-stranded wires (probably 5-7
>strands of 22 or 24 AWG, where they should have at least 30 of 30 AWG
>or thinner), with the knowledge that these will fail after 5-7 years of
>service.

Oh, give me a break. That's absolutely standard in automobile wiring
harnesses, and has been for a long long time -- and the lifetime is typically
a *lot* more than "5-7 years". For example... I'm currently driving a 1986
Chevy Suburban, and I don't have that problem. I didn't have that problem on
my 1984 Buick LeSabre, either -- or on any other car I've ever owned. And
*every* auto wiring harness I've ever cut into has used wires just like the
ones you're complaining about. Where have you ever seen auto wiring that uses
thirty strands of 30AWG wire??

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Splices never hold up in a flexing joint. Anything that keeps the joint from
flexing evenly will be the next point of failure. I say this as a
professional electrical engineer that designs robotic systems.
Oppie

"John Grossbohlin" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "ns" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Well, I think I deserved this: previously I owned another GM rust
>> bucket (1982 Century), and aside from the usual issues it had, the most
>> annoying one was wires (that is, electrical wires) that tended to break
>> wherever they flexed the most (doors, trunk, and to a much lesser
>> extent, the hood).
>
> Had the same experience with a '99 SL2... all the wires attached to the
> trunk lid broke. I requested that the dealer replace the harness and they
> spliced them... I was not a happy camper...
>
> John
>

Can't say definitively but consider the airbag harness that rotates in the
steering column. That's darn near a criticality one reliability level. I'm
sure that they elected to put a bit more cost into that to make it not fail.
It's just that if that fails, they have a lawsuit while if a door or trunk
flex-joint fails, $uck-it...

"Doug Miller" > wrote in message
. net...
> In article .com>, "ns"
> > wrote:
>
>>Bloody GM were saving a penny on not-so-stranded wires (probably 5-7
>>strands of 22 or 24 AWG, where they should have at least 30 of 30 AWG
>>or thinner), with the knowledge that these will fail after 5-7 years of
>>service.
>
> Oh, give me a break. That's absolutely standard in automobile wiring
> harnesses, and has been for a long long time -- and the lifetime is
> typically
> a *lot* more than "5-7 years". For example... I'm currently driving a 1986
> Chevy Suburban, and I don't have that problem. I didn't have that problem
> on
> my 1984 Buick LeSabre, either -- or on any other car I've ever owned. And
> *every* auto wiring harness I've ever cut into has used wires just like
> the
> ones you're complaining about. Where have you ever seen auto wiring that
> uses
> thirty strands of 30AWG wire??
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

> I wonder if this should be further reported? Your opinion/s?

I've got a '94 SC2 with 160k on it I've owned since new, and a '92 SC with
150k. Haven't seen this problem on either.

Lane [ lane (at) evilplastic.com ]
---
Visit my Saturn Car Audio and Performance Page at http://www.evilplastic.com


"ns" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Well, I think I deserved this: previously I owned another GM rust
> bucket (1982 Century), and aside from the usual issues it had, the most
> annoying one was wires (that is, electrical wires) that tended to break
> wherever they flexed the most (doors, trunk, and to a much lesser
> extent, the hood).
>
> So, last night, when the weather was relatively comfortable (above
> freezing, where here we are in deep freeze most of the winter) I
> checked the exterior bulbs for any of them blown.
> Lo and behold, one of the rear license plate bulbs was out. Easy, I
> thought, just get a replacement and be done. To be sure, I buzzed the
> bulb - blown. Got a replacement, plugged in - no joy. Scratch the head
> a bit, checked for voltage presence - nope. Hmmm...
> Started tracing the wires, and what do you know: where they flex the
> most (on this car, they followed the left trunk arm and then split and
> ended in a connector) 3 out of 8 (yes, three) were completely
> separated, with another one having a split insulation and copper
> showing.
> Bloody GM were saving a penny on not-so-stranded wires (probably 5-7
> strands of 22 or 24 AWG, where they should have at least 30 of 30 AWG
> or thinner), with the knowledge that these will fail after 5-7 years of
> service.
>
> My advice to any of you with cars in that age range (5-7 years or
> older) and with a malfunctioning equipment mounted in the doors
> (whatever that may be: light switch, speakers, electric locks) - check
> them wires for broken (or worst - exposed copper) insulation and
> copper.
> This is a hazard that may turn into a fireball - I'm not kidding: these
> wire are on theinside of the trunk, possibly very close to the gas
> fill-up. All you need is a good spark, some flammable material, and
> voila - you got yourself a slightly scorched trunk. Beware.
>
> I wonder if this should be further reported? Your opinion/s?
>