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Check engine light (long)



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 3rd 04, 05:21 PM
CELbegone
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Check engine light (long)

This is about Mazda rather than the Miata. I own two Mazdas, a Mazda6
and a Mazda3. Hindsite tells me I should have varied brand names a
bit. But this is how things turned out. The popular mazdaXforums
websites are more geared towards fandom than actual technical issues.
So this is the best place I could think to ask a few questions. I
hope you don't mind the semiOT post.

My Mazda6 is the 6-cyl 5-speed automatic version. It's had three
CEL lights in the past year (the last one was four or five
months ago). The dealership took the car the first two times and
gave me a rental. They reset the CEL and did a lot of ignition
work the first time (new plugs, somethind else - I can dig up
the WO if it's of value). The second time, they reset the CEL
and gave a story about firmware. The third time, they didn't
take the car at all and said the CEL would go away. It did.
The first two CELs were misfires. The third probably was too,
although the code was never read.

My Mazda3 is the 2.3L 5-speed manual version. It had a CEL go off
last night. I've put about 20 miles on it since. I haven't called
the dealer yet.

Between two Mazda cars, I've had 4 CEL lights. Alright, now the
questions.

Independently of Mazda's bull****, what's going on?

Is it some quality issue with Mazda? Maybe the engines
just aren't put together well. The 6-cylinder is the American
designed and built variety (ie Ford). I'm not sure about the
4-cylinder. Or is the computer too sensitive? Perhaps misfires
aren't as uncommon as people think. Could it be that it just
reports everything?

Are my driving habits to blame? I did hit the rev limiter on
the Mazda6. The tiptronics absolutely sucks on it. Sometimes
it would delay my shift and continue in a lower gear until
the RPM went above redline for a second. I experimented and
stopped using tiptronics over about a month. I've never hit
the rev limiter on the Mazda3. I rarely shift aggressively.
I did so three days ago merging with interstate traffic.
Crazy holiday shopping patterns led to the low speed lane
doing 5 mph and the next lane over doing 40, so the car
had to scoot.

Will I do damage driving the car now that it has a CEL warning?
It's a bad time to bring it into the dealership. I'm too dependent
on the car right now and can't spare the time from work.

Can I actually detect a misfire? What symptoms do they show?
(Besides a CEL obviously :-)

The Mazda6's strings of misfires stopped - or at least the
misfires have disappeared for the last four months. Could the
misfire be related to engine break-in? It has 15,000 miles
on it. (The Mazda3 has 5000 miles)

I'm skeptical of the dealership's claims right now. I work
in IT and I hear bull**** stories all the time to soothe the
client while not really addressing the issue. Unfortunately,
I don't know nearly as much about cars as I do about computers.
I've lurked here forever and have seen some excellent advice
and help offered. If you want to send some help my way, I'd
appreciate it.

Thanks.
Ads
  #2  
Old December 4th 04, 12:00 AM
Lanny Chambers
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >, CELbegone >
wrote:

> Between two Mazda cars, I've had 4 CEL lights. Alright, now the
> questions.
>
> Independently of Mazda's bull****, what's going on?


I'd try a different Mazda dealer. Some are very good, some are
awful--just like any other brand. If a dealer told me to ignore a CEL,
I'd get it in writing, in case there's damage later, for which I'd
doubtless be blamed otherwise.

I don't have an OBDII car, so I can't tell you from experience if they
throw a lot of bogus codes, maybe they do. A misfire is a cylinder's
charge not burning when the sparkplug is supposed to fire; it feels like
a slight stutter in power delivery, perhaps not palpable with an
automatic. It won't hurt the engine, but may shorten the life of the
catalytic converter by sending unburned gas down the pipe. A couple of
instances is probably trivial.

Bouncing off the rev limiter won't hurt anything--that's why it's there.
As for the transmission, just put it in Drive and forget the "manual"
feature--I've driven a 6, and the "manual" thingie is indeed useless, as
you say. I've driven a manual 3, too. Both are really very nice cars.
Don't get too bummed, you'll sort them out.

--
Lanny Chambers, St. Louis, USA
'94C
the alignment page:
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html
  #3  
Old December 4th 04, 12:35 PM
BernMan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

May not be the problem but it happened to me. The CEL was lit turned out to
be I did not have the gas cap tight. There is some kind of sensor in the
tank, don't know how it works, detects pressure or vacuume of some sort
designed to prevent gas fumes from escaping????

Someone told me this and I thought, yea right????I checked and the cap was
loose, no light since.


"CELbegone" > wrote in message
...
> This is about Mazda rather than the Miata. I own two Mazdas, a Mazda6
> and a Mazda3. Hindsite tells me I should have varied brand names a
> bit. But this is how things turned out. The popular mazdaXforums
> websites are more geared towards fandom than actual technical issues.
> So this is the best place I could think to ask a few questions. I
> hope you don't mind the semiOT post.
>
> My Mazda6 is the 6-cyl 5-speed automatic version. It's had three
> CEL lights in the past year (the last one was four or five
> months ago). The dealership took the car the first two times and
> gave me a rental. They reset the CEL and did a lot of ignition
> work the first time (new plugs, somethind else - I can dig up
> the WO if it's of value). The second time, they reset the CEL
> and gave a story about firmware. The third time, they didn't
> take the car at all and said the CEL would go away. It did.
> The first two CELs were misfires. The third probably was too,
> although the code was never read.
>
> My Mazda3 is the 2.3L 5-speed manual version. It had a CEL go off
> last night. I've put about 20 miles on it since. I haven't called
> the dealer yet.
>
> Between two Mazda cars, I've had 4 CEL lights. Alright, now the
> questions.
>
> Independently of Mazda's bull****, what's going on?
>
> Is it some quality issue with Mazda? Maybe the engines
> just aren't put together well. The 6-cylinder is the American
> designed and built variety (ie Ford). I'm not sure about the
> 4-cylinder. Or is the computer too sensitive? Perhaps misfires
> aren't as uncommon as people think. Could it be that it just
> reports everything?
>
> Are my driving habits to blame? I did hit the rev limiter on
> the Mazda6. The tiptronics absolutely sucks on it. Sometimes
> it would delay my shift and continue in a lower gear until
> the RPM went above redline for a second. I experimented and
> stopped using tiptronics over about a month. I've never hit
> the rev limiter on the Mazda3. I rarely shift aggressively.
> I did so three days ago merging with interstate traffic.
> Crazy holiday shopping patterns led to the low speed lane
> doing 5 mph and the next lane over doing 40, so the car
> had to scoot.
>
> Will I do damage driving the car now that it has a CEL warning?
> It's a bad time to bring it into the dealership. I'm too dependent
> on the car right now and can't spare the time from work.
>
> Can I actually detect a misfire? What symptoms do they show?
> (Besides a CEL obviously :-)
>
> The Mazda6's strings of misfires stopped - or at least the
> misfires have disappeared for the last four months. Could the
> misfire be related to engine break-in? It has 15,000 miles
> on it. (The Mazda3 has 5000 miles)
>
> I'm skeptical of the dealership's claims right now. I work
> in IT and I hear bull**** stories all the time to soothe the
> client while not really addressing the issue. Unfortunately,
> I don't know nearly as much about cars as I do about computers.
> I've lurked here forever and have seen some excellent advice
> and help offered. If you want to send some help my way, I'd
> appreciate it.
>
> Thanks.



  #4  
Old December 4th 04, 10:12 PM
Phil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I've had an intermittent CEL problem with my '92 Mazda Protege for
about 2 years. I've had it in the shop 3 times but it behaves
everytime I take it in. No coding shows up in the diagnostics so they
say they can't fix it. The light usually comes on as soon as the
engine temp reaches max then comes and goes corresponding with a
slight surge or lag as it comes on and off. Once it's good and warm
the problem seems to go but the idle is sometimes rough and surges. On
occasion the car stalls at lights and sometimes just won't start
unless you put your foot to floor. I found I had a gas tank leak and
thought it might be a similar problem to the loose gas cap but I
replaced the tank but not the problem.

Phil


"BernMan" > wrote in message >...
> May not be the problem but it happened to me. The CEL was lit turned out to
> be I did not have the gas cap tight. There is some kind of sensor in the
> tank, don't know how it works, detects pressure or vacuume of some sort
> designed to prevent gas fumes from escaping????
>
> Someone told me this and I thought, yea right????I checked and the cap was
> loose, no light since.
>
>
> "CELbegone" > wrote in message
> ...
> > This is about Mazda rather than the Miata. I own two Mazdas, a Mazda6
> > and a Mazda3. Hindsite tells me I should have varied brand names a
> > bit. But this is how things turned out. The popular mazdaXforums
> > websites are more geared towards fandom than actual technical issues.
> > So this is the best place I could think to ask a few questions. I
> > hope you don't mind the semiOT post.
> >
> > My Mazda6 is the 6-cyl 5-speed automatic version. It's had three
> > CEL lights in the past year (the last one was four or five
> > months ago). The dealership took the car the first two times and
> > gave me a rental. They reset the CEL and did a lot of ignition
> > work the first time (new plugs, somethind else - I can dig up
> > the WO if it's of value). The second time, they reset the CEL
> > and gave a story about firmware. The third time, they didn't
> > take the car at all and said the CEL would go away. It did.
> > The first two CELs were misfires. The third probably was too,
> > although the code was never read.
> >
> > My Mazda3 is the 2.3L 5-speed manual version. It had a CEL go off
> > last night. I've put about 20 miles on it since. I haven't called
> > the dealer yet.
> >
> > Between two Mazda cars, I've had 4 CEL lights. Alright, now the
> > questions.
> >
> > Independently of Mazda's bull****, what's going on?
> >
> > Is it some quality issue with Mazda? Maybe the engines
> > just aren't put together well. The 6-cylinder is the American
> > designed and built variety (ie Ford). I'm not sure about the
> > 4-cylinder. Or is the computer too sensitive? Perhaps misfires
> > aren't as uncommon as people think. Could it be that it just
> > reports everything?
> >
> > Are my driving habits to blame? I did hit the rev limiter on
> > the Mazda6. The tiptronics absolutely sucks on it. Sometimes
> > it would delay my shift and continue in a lower gear until
> > the RPM went above redline for a second. I experimented and
> > stopped using tiptronics over about a month. I've never hit
> > the rev limiter on the Mazda3. I rarely shift aggressively.
> > I did so three days ago merging with interstate traffic.
> > Crazy holiday shopping patterns led to the low speed lane
> > doing 5 mph and the next lane over doing 40, so the car
> > had to scoot.
> >
> > Will I do damage driving the car now that it has a CEL warning?
> > It's a bad time to bring it into the dealership. I'm too dependent
> > on the car right now and can't spare the time from work.
> >
> > Can I actually detect a misfire? What symptoms do they show?
> > (Besides a CEL obviously :-)
> >
> > The Mazda6's strings of misfires stopped - or at least the
> > misfires have disappeared for the last four months. Could the
> > misfire be related to engine break-in? It has 15,000 miles
> > on it. (The Mazda3 has 5000 miles)
> >
> > I'm skeptical of the dealership's claims right now. I work
> > in IT and I hear bull**** stories all the time to soothe the
> > client while not really addressing the issue. Unfortunately,
> > I don't know nearly as much about cars as I do about computers.
> > I've lurked here forever and have seen some excellent advice
> > and help offered. If you want to send some help my way, I'd
> > appreciate it.
> >
> > Thanks.

  #5  
Old January 14th 05, 12:53 AM
hab21
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I have a 2000 Miata. The engine began occasionally not starting. When I
get it to the mechanic it starts. Then the check engine light comes on.
I have replaced plugs, wires, battery, etc. It still happens ocasionally.
It is also throwing gas through and has damaged the converter.

Anyone have any ideas??

  #6  
Old January 14th 05, 09:26 PM
Larry Gadbois
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It could be the classic Miata problem. The ignition wires go bad. The
coilpack gets damaged because of the arcing inside the wires. The bad coil
pack causes mis-firing on two of the cylinders. The raw gas causes damage to
the 02 sensor. The damaged 02 sensor leads to a damaged converter. The whole
thing leads to a damage wallet..... ;-)

"hab21" > wrote in message
lkaboutautos.com...
>I have a 2000 Miata. The engine began occasionally not starting. When I
> get it to the mechanic it starts. Then the check engine light comes on.
> I have replaced plugs, wires, battery, etc. It still happens ocasionally.
> It is also throwing gas through and has damaged the converter.
>
> Anyone have any ideas??
>



  #7  
Old January 15th 05, 03:31 AM
Lanny Chambers
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article . net>,
"Larry Gadbois" > wrote:

> It could be the classic Miata problem. The ignition wires go bad. The
> coilpack gets damaged because of the arcing inside the wires.


Another common cause of coil failure is loose or corroded ground
terminals. The typical early symptom is a tach needle that
intermittantly reads significantly too low. It never hurts to clean the
ground terminals every few years.

--
Lanny Chambers, St. Louis, USA
'94C
the alignment page:
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html
  #8  
Old January 15th 05, 04:22 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


hab21 wrote:
> I have a 2000 Miata. The engine began occasionally not starting.

When I
> get it to the mechanic it starts. ....
> It is also throwing gas through and has damaged the converter.


The 99-00 miatas, from what I've heard, had problems with intermittent
ignition coils. It also seems to me that your mechanic should have been
able to query the OBD-II port on the engine computer to see what kind
of error report is stored.

  #10  
Old January 25th 05, 11:03 PM
deathcube23
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I just started getting the CEL on my Mazda 6s. I took it to the dealership
(just had my 7,500 mile service done a week earlier) and they said they had
12 other cars in the shop for the same problem. They said that the Mazda
3's had a faulty gas cap that was causing the CEL and they have begun
replaceing them. They said the Mazda 6's had a software issue with
emissions. Sounds like they are still trying to get a handle on that one.
He assured me that the light was harmless and would have NO negetive
effects on my engine. I'm leaving my 6 with them and the end of the week
and they will check it out.

 




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