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98' Accord, Rear camber not adjustable?



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 28th 06, 11:28 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
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Default 98' Accord, Rear camber not adjustable?

Hi group,

The alignment guy says my rear camber is out of tolerance, and needs to
be adjusted. However, he adds, there is no adjustment on the standard Accord
EX. He has some parts(struts?) for about $300(installed & aligned) that will
fix this.

A. Does this make sense?
B. Are his prices in line?
C. Do I have any options?

Al


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  #2  
Old June 29th 06, 02:41 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
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Posts: n/a
Default 98' Accord, Rear camber not adjustable?

"Al" > wrote in
:

> Hi group,
>
> The alignment guy says my rear camber is out of tolerance, and
> needs to
> be adjusted.




Can happen if something's bent, if the bushings are badly worn, or if the
springs are sagging.



> However, he adds, there is no adjustment on the standard
> Accord EX.



True. Camber isn't adjustable on any Honda, with the OEM parts.

And you don't want to mess with the factory setup unless you or your
mechanic really know what you're doing. You can get into a peck of trouble
very quickly with the wrong alignment.




> He has some parts(struts?) for about $300(installed &
> aligned) that will fix this.
>
> A. Does this make sense?
> B. Are his prices in line?
> C. Do I have any options?
>



Makes sense, sure. It's probably adjustable aftermarket control arms.

Do you really need it? How far off is the alignment? Is the toe properly
settable? Are you getting odd tire wear?

You probably have more negative camber than you should have. The rear on
these is set up for positive toe and negative camber. This means the fronts
of the tires point inward, and the inside top of the tires lean inward.
Results in a tendency to understeer, which is desirable from a road-going
safety perspective.

I'd make sure the $300 isn't going towards covering up some other problem
first.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
  #3  
Old June 29th 06, 03:41 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 98' Accord, Rear camber not adjustable?

Ditto every word of Tegger's post.

If it was not the dealer who checked the alignment, I'd go
to a dealer and have this redone. They'll look for worn/bent
parts. Your guy should have looked for them, too, and then
explained. Otherwise, either this does not add up, or
something was lost in translation when your alignment guy
explained the problem.

What symptoms occurred that caused you to get the alignment?


"Al" > wrote
> Hi group,
>
> The alignment guy says my rear camber is out of
> tolerance, and needs to be adjusted. However, he adds,
> there is no adjustment on the standard Accord EX. He has
> some parts(struts?) for about $300(installed & aligned)
> that will fix this.
>
> A. Does this make sense?
> B. Are his prices in line?
> C. Do I have any options?
>
> Al
>



  #4  
Old June 29th 06, 03:42 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 98' Accord, Rear camber not adjustable?

Al wrote:
> Hi group,
>
> The alignment guy says my rear camber is out of tolerance, and needs to
> be adjusted. However, he adds, there is no adjustment on the standard Accord
> EX. He has some parts(struts?) for about $300(installed & aligned) that will
> fix this.
>
> A. Does this make sense?
> B. Are his prices in line?
> C. Do I have any options?
>
> Al
>
>

struts [shocks] won't affect the camber one little bit, so make sure you
understand what he's trying to sell you.

things that will affect camber are curb damage [probably just one side,
not both], and worn bushings. [get the alignment printout and look at
it to check. if there's no printout, he may not have checked and is
just trying to sell you stuff.] if camber is out on one side, see if
you can find a frame straightening shop or get some aftermarket "speed
shop" type camber adjusters. if both sides, the worn bushings should be
obvious from looking at them if you take the wheel off. if the vehicle
is high mileage, handling would benefit from bushing changes.
  #5  
Old June 29th 06, 04:21 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 98' Accord, Rear camber not adjustable?

Thanks guys,

The thing that got this started was a bit of a shimmy at 65mph, and some
abnormal tire wear, originally spotted on the front. (Car has 61,000 miles)

Yes, I saw a printout of the form from the alignment machine, and it
showed excellent alignment on the front, and camber problems on the rear. I
left the form at home this morning, so I don't have the exact numbers, but
it was both rear tires, (also showing abnormal wear), and as I remember ther
were -2.7 or so? I'll check this and get back to you. Toe looked Ok.

The alignment guy didn't say anything about how it got there. No mention
of damage or wear. He did say that the tires on the front had been rotated
from the rear. I've only owned the car for a little over a year, so I don't
have a real exact history.

I love the car, and handling is very good. I want to get it fixed in a
manner that will allow me to keep the car forever.

Teggar, you and the group are a terrific "resource", be careful someone
doesn't make a national park out of you.

Al G




"TeGGeR®" > wrote in message
...
> "Al" > wrote in
> :
>
>> Hi group,
>>
>> The alignment guy says my rear camber is out of tolerance, and
>> needs to
>> be adjusted.

>
>
>
> Can happen if something's bent, if the bushings are badly worn, or if the
> springs are sagging.
>
>
>
>> However, he adds, there is no adjustment on the standard
>> Accord EX.

>
>
> True. Camber isn't adjustable on any Honda, with the OEM parts.
>
> And you don't want to mess with the factory setup unless you or your
> mechanic really know what you're doing. You can get into a peck of trouble
> very quickly with the wrong alignment.
>
>
>
>
>> He has some parts(struts?) for about $300(installed &
>> aligned) that will fix this.
>>
>> A. Does this make sense?
>> B. Are his prices in line?
>> C. Do I have any options?
>>

>
>
> Makes sense, sure. It's probably adjustable aftermarket control arms.
>
> Do you really need it? How far off is the alignment? Is the toe properly
> settable? Are you getting odd tire wear?
>
> You probably have more negative camber than you should have. The rear on
> these is set up for positive toe and negative camber. This means the
> fronts
> of the tires point inward, and the inside top of the tires lean inward.
> Results in a tendency to understeer, which is desirable from a road-going
> safety perspective.
>
> I'd make sure the $300 isn't going towards covering up some other problem
> first.
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/



  #6  
Old June 29th 06, 04:57 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 98' Accord, Rear camber not adjustable?

If you have this redone at the dealer, also have them check
and report to you on the ride height ( = distance from frame
to ground, measured at specified points). After checking
tire air pressure and maybe doing an under the car
inspection of parts, ride height is the first thing any
reputable shop should check.

Ride height is going to be a good indicator of sagging
springs and/or worn bushings. If the ride height is off,
alignment cannot be checked meaningfully. The shop should
understand your concern.

Sagging springs and/or soft shocks can cause camber
problems, according to sites like
http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/faq/WheelsTires.html . ISTM
common sense suggests the same.

Just seems a little early for a 98 Accord with only 61k
miles to have coil spring or shock problems. This group does
not get a lot of reports of sagging springs or shocks being
a problem as far as tire wear is concerned, ISTM. Still,
shocks do fail, for one. The springs flat out break, for
another, and spring breakage is not always readily
detectable, since it may be at, say, the very bottom of the
spring.

Bushing wear is very common. Ball joint wear occurs, too.
Either may cause ride height and so tire wear and so
alignment problems.

"Al" > wrote
> Thanks guys,
>
> The thing that got this started was a bit of a shimmy
> at 65mph, and some abnormal tire wear, originally spotted
> on the front. (Car has 61,000 miles)
>
> Yes, I saw a printout of the form from the alignment
> machine, and it showed excellent alignment on the front,
> and camber problems on the rear. I left the form at home
> this morning, so I don't have the exact numbers, but it
> was both rear tires, (also showing abnormal wear), and as
> I remember ther were -2.7 or so? I'll check this and get
> back to you. Toe looked Ok.
>
> The alignment guy didn't say anything about how it got
> there. No mention of damage or wear. He did say that the
> tires on the front had been rotated from the rear. I've
> only owned the car for a little over a year, so I don't
> have a real exact history.
>
> I love the car, and handling is very good. I want to
> get it fixed in a manner that will allow me to keep the
> car forever.
>
> Teggar, you and the group are a terrific "resource", be
> careful someone doesn't make a national park out of you.
>
> Al G
>
>
>
>
> "TeGGeR®" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Al" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Hi group,
>>>
>>> The alignment guy says my rear camber is out of
>>> tolerance, and
>>> needs to
>>> be adjusted.

>>
>>
>>
>> Can happen if something's bent, if the bushings are badly
>> worn, or if the
>> springs are sagging.
>>
>>
>>
>>> However, he adds, there is no adjustment on the standard
>>> Accord EX.

>>
>>
>> True. Camber isn't adjustable on any Honda, with the OEM
>> parts.
>>
>> And you don't want to mess with the factory setup unless
>> you or your
>> mechanic really know what you're doing. You can get into
>> a peck of trouble
>> very quickly with the wrong alignment.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> He has some parts(struts?) for about $300(installed &
>>> aligned) that will fix this.
>>>
>>> A. Does this make sense?
>>> B. Are his prices in line?
>>> C. Do I have any options?
>>>

>>
>>
>> Makes sense, sure. It's probably adjustable aftermarket
>> control arms.
>>
>> Do you really need it? How far off is the alignment? Is
>> the toe properly
>> settable? Are you getting odd tire wear?
>>
>> You probably have more negative camber than you should
>> have. The rear on
>> these is set up for positive toe and negative camber.
>> This means the fronts
>> of the tires point inward, and the inside top of the
>> tires lean inward.
>> Results in a tendency to understeer, which is desirable
>> from a road-going
>> safety perspective.
>>
>> I'd make sure the $300 isn't going towards covering up
>> some other problem
>> first.
>>
>> --
>> TeGGeR®
>>
>> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
>> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

>
>



  #7  
Old June 30th 06, 03:57 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 98' Accord, Rear camber not adjustable?


"TeGGeR®" > wrote in message
...
> "Al" > wrote in
> :
>
>> Hi group,
>>
>> The alignment guy says my rear camber is out of tolerance, and
>> needs to
>> be adjusted.

>



snip good stuff...


>
> Do you really need it? How far off is the alignment? Is the toe properly
> settable? Are you getting odd tire wear?
>
> You probably have more negative camber than you should have. The rear on
> these is set up for positive toe and negative camber. This means the
> fronts
> of the tires point inward, and the inside top of the tires lean inward.
> Results in a tendency to understeer, which is desirable from a road-going
> safety perspective.
>
> I'd make sure the $300 isn't going towards covering up some other problem
> first.
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/


Ok, I've got the sheet today.

left rear had a camber of -1.1, and the right rear was -1.0
left rear had a toe of -.07, and the right rear was -.12, for a total
of -.19

thrust angle was .02

Al



  #8  
Old June 30th 06, 04:50 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 98' Accord, Rear camber not adjustable?

Al wrote:
> "TeGGeR®" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Al" > wrote in
:
>>
>>
>>>Hi group,
>>>
>>> The alignment guy says my rear camber is out of tolerance, and
>>> needs to
>>>be adjusted.

>>

>
>
> snip good stuff...
>
>
>
>>Do you really need it? How far off is the alignment? Is the toe properly
>>settable? Are you getting odd tire wear?
>>
>>You probably have more negative camber than you should have. The rear on
>>these is set up for positive toe and negative camber. This means the
>>fronts
>>of the tires point inward, and the inside top of the tires lean inward.
>>Results in a tendency to understeer, which is desirable from a road-going
>>safety perspective.
>>
>>I'd make sure the $300 isn't going towards covering up some other problem
>>first.
>>
>>--
>>TeGGeR®
>>
>>The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
>>www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

>
>
> Ok, I've got the sheet today.
>
> left rear had a camber of -1.1, and the right rear was -1.0


check with the honda service manual, but that may be [just] within spec.
the point is, they're both the same, so it's unlikely to be impact
damage, just bushing wear. unless you're having handling or tire wear
issues, i'd ignore the camber and just concentrate on the toe which
definitely needs attention and /is/ adjustable.

did you find out exactly what he was trying to sell you?

> left rear had a toe of -.07, and the right rear was -.12, for a total
> of -.19
>
> thrust angle was .02
>
> Al
>
>
>

  #9  
Old June 30th 06, 05:41 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 98' Accord, Rear camber not adjustable?

Yes, "adjustable rear control arms".

Estimate says 1 hour to install, and the $300 includes the 4 wheel
alignment.

My dealer want $60 to check it out, $400 to fix it with no adjustable parts,
and another %60 to align it again.

Tire pressure is good, but showing abnormal wear on the inside of the rear
tires.

Thanks for your input guys, I know more about this now than yesterday.

Al G


"jim beam" > wrote in message
t...
> Al wrote:
>> "TeGGeR®" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>"Al" > wrote in
:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi group,
>>>>
>>>> The alignment guy says my rear camber is out of tolerance, and
>>>> needs to
>>>>be adjusted.
>>>

>>
>>
>> snip good stuff...
>>
>>
>>
>>>Do you really need it? How far off is the alignment? Is the toe properly
>>>settable? Are you getting odd tire wear?
>>>
>>>You probably have more negative camber than you should have. The rear on
>>>these is set up for positive toe and negative camber. This means the
>>>fronts
>>>of the tires point inward, and the inside top of the tires lean inward.
>>>Results in a tendency to understeer, which is desirable from a road-going
>>>safety perspective.
>>>
>>>I'd make sure the $300 isn't going towards covering up some other problem
>>>first.
>>>
>>>--
>>>TeGGeR®
>>>
>>>The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
>>>www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

>>
>>
>> Ok, I've got the sheet today.
>>
>> left rear had a camber of -1.1, and the right rear was -1.0

>
> check with the honda service manual, but that may be [just] within spec.
> the point is, they're both the same, so it's unlikely to be impact damage,
> just bushing wear. unless you're having handling or tire wear issues, i'd
> ignore the camber and just concentrate on the toe which definitely needs
> attention and /is/ adjustable.
>
> did you find out exactly what he was trying to sell you?
>
>> left rear had a toe of -.07, and the right rear was -.12, for a total
>> of -.19
>>
>> thrust angle was .02
>>
>> Al
>>
>>


  #10  
Old June 30th 06, 06:09 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 98' Accord, Rear camber not adjustable?

Al wrote:
> Yes, "adjustable rear control arms".
>
> Estimate says 1 hour to install, and the $300 includes the 4 wheel
> alignment.
>
> My dealer want $60 to check it out, $400 to fix it with no adjustable parts,
> and another %60 to align it again.
>
> Tire pressure is good, but showing abnormal wear on the inside of the rear
> tires.


if they've been rotated, that could be inherited from misalignment at
the front!

bottom line, if camber is an issue, and i'm not sure that it is based on
the figures you provided, it's because something's damaged or worn.
putting adjustable camber control arms on the vehicle is just putting
lipstick on the pig. i wouldn't do it unless i was lowering the car or
had a structural misalignment issue that couldn't be sorted out
economically at a decent frame shop.

>
> Thanks for your input guys, I know more about this now than yesterday.
>
> Al G
>
>
> "jim beam" > wrote in message
> t...
>
>>Al wrote:
>>
>>>"TeGGeR®" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Al" > wrote in
:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hi group,
>>>>>
>>>>> The alignment guy says my rear camber is out of tolerance, and
>>>>> needs to
>>>>>be adjusted.
>>>>
>>>
>>>snip good stuff...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Do you really need it? How far off is the alignment? Is the toe properly
>>>>settable? Are you getting odd tire wear?
>>>>
>>>>You probably have more negative camber than you should have. The rear on
>>>>these is set up for positive toe and negative camber. This means the
>>>>fronts
>>>>of the tires point inward, and the inside top of the tires lean inward.
>>>>Results in a tendency to understeer, which is desirable from a road-going
>>>>safety perspective.
>>>>
>>>>I'd make sure the $300 isn't going towards covering up some other problem
>>>>first.
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>TeGGeR®
>>>>
>>>>The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
>>>>www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
>>>
>>>
>>>Ok, I've got the sheet today.
>>>
>>>left rear had a camber of -1.1, and the right rear was -1.0

>>
>>check with the honda service manual, but that may be [just] within spec.
>>the point is, they're both the same, so it's unlikely to be impact damage,
>>just bushing wear. unless you're having handling or tire wear issues, i'd
>>ignore the camber and just concentrate on the toe which definitely needs
>>attention and /is/ adjustable.
>>
>>did you find out exactly what he was trying to sell you?
>>
>>
>>>left rear had a toe of -.07, and the right rear was -.12, for a total
>>>of -.19
>>>
>>>thrust angle was .02
>>>
>>>Al
>>>
>>>

>
>

 




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