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Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 7th 03, 04:33 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.

please cross post as he really needs help. Ingrid

(Timothy Tom) wrote:

I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a
small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill
was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish
died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of
chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean
out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the
bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution
added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were
added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water
3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1
week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the
water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water
sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly
high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not
deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish
died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I
placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in
my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they
died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is
something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed
out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic
substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not
kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are
two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the
waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem.
The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large
short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once
again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I
did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The
water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please
any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.
  #2  
Old August 7th 03, 06:34 AM
DonKcR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.

Are you using the same equipment to refill the pond each time? Could there
be some kind of contaminate in the equipment to refill the pond? I wondered
because you probably used a different system to fill the bowl. Just a
thought from a new pond person. Kc
wrote in message
...
please cross post as he really needs help. Ingrid

(Timothy Tom) wrote:

I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a
small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill
was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish
died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of
chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean
out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the
bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution
added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were
added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water
3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1
week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the
water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water
sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly
high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not
deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish
died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I
placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in
my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they
died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is
something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed
out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic
substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not
kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are
two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the
waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem.
The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large
short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once
again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I
did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The
water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please
any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.



  #3  
Old August 7th 03, 03:42 PM
Axolotl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.

I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a
small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill
was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish
died the next day.


How is your water treated, by whom? Some municipalities have stopped
using chlorine to treat domestic water and have started using things like
ozone, bromine partly to improve the taste and partly because they have
longer half lives and are considered more effective. Check with your
water supplier.

How are you refilling the pond? If you are using the automatic re-filler
mentioned above try filling from some other source. Use the kitchen tap
and a hose. I only suggest this as your problems started when you turned
the automatic system back on.

If the water is still being chlorinated the a test for this might be to
fill a small container with tap water, either let it sit for 24Hrs or add
de-chlorinator and introduce a small fish. If the fish survives try the
same thing using the water source you are using to fill the pond. Take
the sample at the point it enters the pond, but don't take it from the
pond. If the fish survives this part of the test then the problem is in
the pond, if it doesn't then the problem is in the water used to fill the
pond.

WARNING, If the fish doesn't survive part one of the test GET YOUR WATER
TESTED YOU MAY BE AT RISK!

  #4  
Old August 7th 03, 05:12 PM
Sam Hopkins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.

What's the fish look like when it dies? Does it have all it's fins or have
they been eaten away leaving only the thicker parts? Are there any red marks
on it's belly? Do the gills look normal or are they red? Two things that can
kill are different water temperatures and different PH. Chlorine (or other
chemicals) normally cause red gills. Nitrites usually cause red belly. Fins
eaten away is usually PH.


wrote in message
...
please cross post as he really needs help. Ingrid

(Timothy Tom) wrote:

I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a
small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill
was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish
died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of
chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean
out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the
bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution
added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were
added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water
3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1
week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the
water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water
sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly
high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not
deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish
died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I
placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in
my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they
died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is
something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed
out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic
substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not
kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are
two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the
waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem.
The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large
short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once
again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I
did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The
water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please
any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.



  #5  
Old August 7th 03, 09:38 PM
Lee Brouillet
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.

I've been thinking on this one all day. It appears as if all the variables
are covered. My one suggestion for cleaning the lava rock is to put it on a
grill and cook it like a steak: it will burn out any residue that's in the
rocks, and nothing is left after they heat up. It doesn't smell too good,
but it's an extremely effective way to clean the rock, much more effective
than simply blasting it with a hose or power washer. If the pumps were
leaking, you'd notice the film on the water. After the water's been changed
so many times, one would "assume" that anything toxic had been washed out.
To ensure, I'd nuke the pond with a heavy PP dose which would neutralize
most toxins, then maybe put a couple of pounds of activated charcoal in a
knee-high stocking for a few days where there's heavy water flow. Between
the two, if there are any toxins in the water or on the liner, they will be
removed. Because the fish lived in the same water in the house, but died
when placed in the pond, it leads me to believe some of the simple things
like pH differences, water temp change, fish stress in the bag (ammonia?
heat from the sun?) The power washer is suspect, but if you say it hasn't
been used for anything toxic (BTW, fertilizers CAN be toxic . . .) then the
above recommended things would cure that, especially firing up the lava
rock! This is a tough one: everything I can think of has already been tried
or eliminated. I'll keep thinking, and maybe someone will trip over the
answer.

Best of luck,
Lee

wrote in message
...
please cross post as he really needs help. Ingrid

(Timothy Tom) wrote:

I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a
small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill
was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish
died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of
chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean
out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the
bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution
added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were
added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water
3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1
week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the
water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water
sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly
high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not
deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish
died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I
placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in
my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they
died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is
something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed
out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic
substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not
kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are
two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the
waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem.
The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large
short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once
again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I
did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The
water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please
any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.



  #6  
Old August 8th 03, 04:01 AM
Theron
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.


(Timothy Tom) wrote:

I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a
small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill
was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish
died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of
chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean
out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the
bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution
added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were
added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water
3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1
week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the
water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water
sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly
high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not
deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish
died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I
placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in
my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they
died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is
something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed
out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic
substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not
kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are
two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the
waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem.
The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large
short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once
again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I
did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The
water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please
any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next.



A couple of questions.

I read that you have put goldfish in your preform that you had in a
bowl with the same declorinator/ conditioning solution that you use in
your preform. Did you get your water from the same source? That is,
when you fill your preform, I am assuming that you fill it with a hose
or its dedicated water source. Is this correct? I have seen garden
hoses break down chemically over time and become toxic.
The same with underground sprinkler systems.
Let get rid of that variable also. Try to use the same source of water
that you used for the goldfish that you had in the bowl.

Theron
  #7  
Old August 8th 03, 04:26 AM
Timothy Tom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.

To address the power-washer concerns, the washer has been used by me
only. It has only had water used in it. Nothing else, nada, no
detergents, no fertilizer, nothing except water from a hose receiving
the same municipal water. As far as what the fish look like when I
put them in. This does cause me some concern. When I first put the
fish in, it appears as if something really irritates them. Most of
the fish I have witnessed appear to intermittently dart around for
about 2-3 min, and then appear to settle to the bottom in a upright
(i.e. apparently resting) position. One of the goldfish that was
first added, I found had actually jumped out of the pond. I put it
back in, and it died within 10 mins. I have then witnessed several
fish die within 10-20 min. I think this makes it clear that there is
no other creature/critter involved in killing them. It further seems
to support some toxin/strong irritant killing them. Upon dying, I
have really not noticed any redness anywhere on the fish. They simply
look completely normal except they are limp and dead.
  #8  
Old August 8th 03, 08:18 AM
MattO
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.


"Timothy Tom" wrote in message
om...
Thank you all for your thoughts. The pond has always been refilled
using an auto-refill valve put in by the original landscaper who
installed the pond. The fact that fish lived in a bowl of the same
treated tap-water that is used to fill the pond suggests to me that
the problem does not lie in the municipal water source. It is
possible that it has something to do with the auto-refill I suppose.


Axolotl said:
How are you refilling the pond? If you are using the automatic re-filler
mentioned above try filling from some other source. Use the kitchen tap
and a hose. I only suggest this as your problems started when you turned
the automatic system back on.

I think Axolotl was on to something.
Not the water itself, but something in the auto-refill plumbing.
Willing to risk 1 more fish? Try filling pond from a hose?
~MattO


  #9  
Old August 8th 03, 02:00 PM
GD
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.

Which dechlorinating/conditioning product did you use? How much did
you put in the goldfish bowl and what is the goldfish bowl volume?
How much did you put in the 150 gallon pond? And, how are you
acclimating the new fish prior to stocking?


Theron wrote:


(Timothy Tom) wrote:

I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a
small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill
was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish
died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of
chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean
out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the
bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution
added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were
added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water
3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1
week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the
water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water
sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly
high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not
deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish
died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I
placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in
my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they
died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is
something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed
out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic
substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not
kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are
two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the
waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem.
The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large
short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once
again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I
did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The
water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please
any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next.


A couple of questions.

I read that you have put goldfish in your preform that you had in a
bowl with the same declorinator/ conditioning solution that you use in
your preform. Did you get your water from the same source? That is,
when you fill your preform, I am assuming that you fill it with a hose
or its dedicated water source. Is this correct? I have seen garden
hoses break down chemically over time and become toxic.
The same with underground sprinkler systems.
Let get rid of that variable also. Try to use the same source of water
that you used for the goldfish that you had in the bowl.

Theron


  #10  
Old August 8th 03, 02:34 PM
Sam Hopkins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.

Place a fish in the pond. If he dies scoop some water out of the pond and
place in a bowl. Next place fish #2 in the bowl. If he dies you rule out any
type of power issue and rule in a chemical problem. If he doesn't die you
rule out chemical problem and rule in power problem.

Sam


wrote in message
...
please cross post as he really needs help. Ingrid

(Timothy Tom) wrote:

I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a
small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill
was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish
died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of
chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean
out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the
bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution
added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were
added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water
3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1
week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the
water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water
sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly
high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not
deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish
died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I
placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in
my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they
died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is
something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed
out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic
substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not
kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are
two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the
waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem.
The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large
short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once
again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I
did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The
water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please
any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.



 




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