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#221
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In article >, jaybird wrote:
> "Brent P" > wrote in message >> Your boss is government. You do what you are told with 'just following >> orders' blind mentality. I get your posts just fine. > > If I didn't agree with what I was doing, I wouldn't do it. You've stated many times that you believe whatever the courts (the government) decides is right and just and define what you believe to be so. >>>> How common it is, is not relevant. The fact that such searches >>>> effectively eliminate our rights is. >> >>> The fourth amendment prohibits "unreasonable" searches, not all searches. >>> If a cop has probable cause, then it's reasonable for him/her to search. >> >> Note the word 'effectively'. When 'reasonable' is defined as 'because a >> cop wants to' or 'because the government says so' or 'because we have a >> dog trained to alert on command', we effectively no longer have that >> right. > It's easy to sum it up like that, but each of those phrases has to be backed > up with legal authority and checked against constitutional standards. No they haven't. The supreme court does not do it's job properly. It makes inconsistant rulings all the time. A constitutional standard would not allow for that. |
Ads |
#222
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jaybird wrote: > "Nate Nagel" > wrote in message > ... > > jaybird wrote: > > > >> "Nate Nagel" > wrote in message > >> ... > >> > >>>jaybird wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>>"Brent P" > wrote in message > ... > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>In article >, jaybird wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>>Yes, what you're claiming can > >>>>>>happen to an extent but it is not the common practice and it does not > >>>>>>lend > >>>>>>anything to credibility, perhaps the most important attribute for a > >>>>>>cop when > >>>>>>he goes to court. As usual, I'm merely defending the good guys. > >>>>> > >>>>>How common it is, is not relevant. The fact that such searches > >>>>>effectively eliminate our rights is. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>The fourth amendment prohibits "unreasonable" searches, not all > >>>>searches. If a cop has probable cause, then it's reasonable for him/her > >>>>to search. > >>>> > >>> > >>>Ah, but if you want to search a vehicle, you walk the dog around it, it > >>>alerts, boom, you have probable cause. If you don't find anything "oh, > >>>must have been some residue in the trunk or something" > >> > >> > >> It's not quite that easy, but I don't think you guys will ever understand > >> that without actually being involved in it firsthand. > >> > > > > It really is that easy. Hell, *I* could train a dog to alert on command. > > This ain't rocket science, people have been training dogs since before > > recorded history. > > Exactly. You could train a dog to alert on command, but training a reliable > and certifiable dog to the courts' standards is much more involved. > True, but you have people to do that. I can take your reliable, certifiable dog and train him to alert on command. So can you. So can any cop. And there's no mechanism in place to keep that from happening. nate |
#223
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"N8N" > wrote in message oups.com... > > jaybird wrote: >> "Nate Nagel" > wrote in message >> ... >> > jaybird wrote: >> > >> >> "Nate Nagel" > wrote in message >> >> ... >> >> >> >>>jaybird wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>>"Brent P" > wrote in message >> ... >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>>In article >, jaybird > wrote: > >> >>>>> >> >>>>>>Yes, what you're claiming can >> >>>>>>happen to an extent but it is not the common practice and it > does not >> >>>>>>lend >> >>>>>>anything to credibility, perhaps the most important attribute > for a >> >>>>>>cop when >> >>>>>>he goes to court. As usual, I'm merely defending the good > guys. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>How common it is, is not relevant. The fact that such searches >> >>>>>effectively eliminate our rights is. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>The fourth amendment prohibits "unreasonable" searches, not all >> >>>>searches. If a cop has probable cause, then it's reasonable for > him/her >> >>>>to search. >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>Ah, but if you want to search a vehicle, you walk the dog around > it, it >> >>>alerts, boom, you have probable cause. If you don't find anything > "oh, >> >>>must have been some residue in the trunk or something" >> >> >> >> >> >> It's not quite that easy, but I don't think you guys will ever > understand >> >> that without actually being involved in it firsthand. >> >> >> > >> > It really is that easy. Hell, *I* could train a dog to alert on > command. >> > This ain't rocket science, people have been training dogs since > before >> > recorded history. >> >> Exactly. You could train a dog to alert on command, but training a > reliable >> and certifiable dog to the courts' standards is much more involved. >> > > True, but you have people to do that. I can take your reliable, > certifiable dog and train him to alert on command. So can you. So can > any cop. And there's no mechanism in place to keep that from > happening. Sure there is. First off, it's called ethics, but beyond that there is reliability. I wouldn't rely on a dog trained to alert on command. -- --- jaybird --- I am not the cause of your problems. My actions are the result of your actions. Your life is not my fault. |
#224
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"Brent P" > wrote in message ... > In article >, jaybird wrote: >> "Brent P" > wrote in message > >>>> Besides, the majority of the population, me included, is not able to >>>> tell whether a dog has "alerted" or not. So all we have is the dog >>>> handler's word for it. >>> >>> That's the beauty of it. And it's super secret, just like the profiling >>> criteria! >> >> That's right. I'm not tipping of the crooks to my procedures. ) > > Got a book for your reading list Jaybird: > (same book different links turned up by google) > http://www.nrbookservice.com/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c6606 > http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...SBN=0895260506 > > In Men in Black, Mark Levin explodes myth after myth about the federal > judiciary, including the biggest one of all: the idea that Supreme Court > judges are somehow imbued with greater insight, wisdom, and vision than > the rest of us -- and that for some reason Almighty God has endowed them > with superior judgment about justice and fairness. But as Levin > demonstrates again and again in these pages, judges are men and women > with human imperfections and frailties. Some have indeed been brilliant, > honorable, and moral, but others have been corrupt, unprincipled, racist, > and even mentally impaired (yes, Levin names names). Well of course they're just human. They are the humans who we choose to represent us to make decisions for us on rulings of our laws. They're not perfect, but if you are more perfect then they are, I suggest you start running for election and working your way up. -- --- jaybird --- I am not the cause of your problems. My actions are the result of your actions. Your life is not my fault. |
#225
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jaybird wrote:
> "N8N" > wrote in message > oups.com... > >>jaybird wrote: >> >>>"Nate Nagel" > wrote in message ... >>> >>>>jaybird wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>"Nate Nagel" > wrote in message ... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>jaybird wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>"Brent P" > wrote in message ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>In article >, jaybird >> >>wrote: >> >> >>>>>>>>>Yes, what you're claiming can >>>>>>>>>happen to an extent but it is not the common practice and it >> >>does not >> >>>>>>>>>lend >>>>>>>>>anything to credibility, perhaps the most important attribute >> >>for a >> >>>>>>>>>cop when >>>>>>>>>he goes to court. As usual, I'm merely defending the good >> >>guys. >> >>>>>>>>How common it is, is not relevant. The fact that such searches >>>>>>>>effectively eliminate our rights is. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The fourth amendment prohibits "unreasonable" searches, not all >>>>>>>searches. If a cop has probable cause, then it's reasonable for >> >>him/her >> >>>>>>>to search. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Ah, but if you want to search a vehicle, you walk the dog around >> >>it, it >> >>>>>>alerts, boom, you have probable cause. If you don't find anything >> >>"oh, >> >>>>>>must have been some residue in the trunk or something" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>It's not quite that easy, but I don't think you guys will ever >> >>understand >> >>>>>that without actually being involved in it firsthand. >>>>> >>>> >>>>It really is that easy. Hell, *I* could train a dog to alert on >> >>command. >> >>>>This ain't rocket science, people have been training dogs since >> >>before >> >>>>recorded history. >>> >>>Exactly. You could train a dog to alert on command, but training a >> >>reliable >> >>>and certifiable dog to the courts' standards is much more involved. >>> >> >>True, but you have people to do that. I can take your reliable, >>certifiable dog and train him to alert on command. So can you. So can >>any cop. And there's no mechanism in place to keep that from >>happening. > > > Sure there is. First off, it's called ethics, Which is an iffy proposition with cops. IME about 50% of them have them. > but beyond that there is > reliability. I wouldn't rely on a dog trained to alert on command. > Neither would I. But it passed the certification test, and who's going to bitch if you inadvertantly search a few extra cars? nate -- replace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel |
#226
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"Nate Nagel" > wrote in message ... > jaybird wrote: > >> "N8N" > wrote in message >> oups.com... >> >>>jaybird wrote: >>> >>>>"Nate Nagel" > wrote in message ... >>>> >>>>>jaybird wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>"Nate Nagel" > wrote in message ... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>jaybird wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>"Brent P" > wrote in message ... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>In article >, jaybird >>> >>>wrote: >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>Yes, what you're claiming can >>>>>>>>>>happen to an extent but it is not the common practice and it >>> >>>does not >>> >>>>>>>>>>lend >>>>>>>>>>anything to credibility, perhaps the most important attribute >>> >>>for a >>> >>>>>>>>>>cop when >>>>>>>>>>he goes to court. As usual, I'm merely defending the good >>> >>>guys. >>> >>>>>>>>>How common it is, is not relevant. The fact that such searches >>>>>>>>>effectively eliminate our rights is. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The fourth amendment prohibits "unreasonable" searches, not all >>>>>>>>searches. If a cop has probable cause, then it's reasonable for >>> >>>him/her >>> >>>>>>>>to search. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Ah, but if you want to search a vehicle, you walk the dog around >>> >>>it, it >>> >>>>>>>alerts, boom, you have probable cause. If you don't find anything >>> >>>"oh, >>> >>>>>>>must have been some residue in the trunk or something" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>It's not quite that easy, but I don't think you guys will ever >>> >>>understand >>> >>>>>>that without actually being involved in it firsthand. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>It really is that easy. Hell, *I* could train a dog to alert on >>> >>>command. >>> >>>>>This ain't rocket science, people have been training dogs since >>> >>>before >>> >>>>>recorded history. >>>> >>>>Exactly. You could train a dog to alert on command, but training a >>> >>>reliable >>> >>>>and certifiable dog to the courts' standards is much more involved. >>>> >>> >>>True, but you have people to do that. I can take your reliable, >>>certifiable dog and train him to alert on command. So can you. So can >>>any cop. And there's no mechanism in place to keep that from >>>happening. >> >> >> Sure there is. First off, it's called ethics, > > Which is an iffy proposition with cops. IME about 50% of them have them. Well that's your personal opinion, and your fault. I know lots of cops and show that figure to be much higher. > >> but beyond that there is reliability. I wouldn't rely on a dog trained >> to alert on command. >> > > Neither would I. But it passed the certification test, and who's going to > bitch if you inadvertantly search a few extra cars? The drivers/occupants and the fourth amendment. -- --- jaybird --- I am not the cause of your problems. My actions are the result of your actions. Your life is not my fault. |
#227
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jaybird wrote:
[Elected and appointed officials] > Well of course they're just human. They are the humans who we choose to > represent us to make decisions for us on rulings of our laws. They're not > perfect, but if you are more perfect then they are, I suggest you start > running for election and working your way up. That only works if you have more money than they do. |
#228
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jaybird wrote:
> "Nate Nagel" > wrote in message > ... > >>jaybird wrote: >> >> >>>"N8N" > wrote in message egroups.com... >>> >>> >>>>jaybird wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>"Nate Nagel" > wrote in message ... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>jaybird wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>"Nate Nagel" > wrote in message ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>jaybird wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>"Brent P" > wrote in message ... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>In article >, jaybird >>>> >>>>wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Yes, what you're claiming can >>>>>>>>>>>happen to an extent but it is not the common practice and it >>>> >>>>does not >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>lend >>>>>>>>>>>anything to credibility, perhaps the most important attribute >>>> >>>>for a >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>cop when >>>>>>>>>>>he goes to court. As usual, I'm merely defending the good >>>> >>>>guys. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>How common it is, is not relevant. The fact that such searches >>>>>>>>>>effectively eliminate our rights is. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>The fourth amendment prohibits "unreasonable" searches, not all >>>>>>>>>searches. If a cop has probable cause, then it's reasonable for >>>> >>>>him/her >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>to search. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Ah, but if you want to search a vehicle, you walk the dog around >>>> >>>>it, it >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>alerts, boom, you have probable cause. If you don't find anything >>>> >>>>"oh, >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>must have been some residue in the trunk or something" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>It's not quite that easy, but I don't think you guys will ever >>>> >>>>understand >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>that without actually being involved in it firsthand. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>It really is that easy. Hell, *I* could train a dog to alert on >>>> >>>>command. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>This ain't rocket science, people have been training dogs since >>>> >>>>before >>>> >>>> >>>>>>recorded history. >>>>> >>>>>Exactly. You could train a dog to alert on command, but training a >>>> >>>>reliable >>>> >>>> >>>>>and certifiable dog to the courts' standards is much more involved. >>>>> >>>> >>>>True, but you have people to do that. I can take your reliable, >>>>certifiable dog and train him to alert on command. So can you. So can >>>>any cop. And there's no mechanism in place to keep that from >>>>happening. >>> >>> >>>Sure there is. First off, it's called ethics, >> >>Which is an iffy proposition with cops. IME about 50% of them have them. > > > Well that's your personal opinion, and your fault. I know lots of cops and > show that figure to be much higher. Why is that my fault? Because I am a generally law abiding citizen and therefore the only interactions with cops that I have are either just random conversations or else being hassled by a-holes? > > >>>but beyond that there is reliability. I wouldn't rely on a dog trained >>>to alert on command. >>> >> >>Neither would I. But it passed the certification test, and who's going to >>bitch if you inadvertantly search a few extra cars? > > > The drivers/occupants and the fourth amendment. The drivers/occupants will be in jail and the Constitution has already been used as toilet paper by the Supreme Court more than once. nate -- replace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel |
#229
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In article >, jaybird wrote:
> > "Brent P" > wrote in message > ... >> In article >, jaybird wrote: >>> "Brent P" > wrote in message >> >>>>> Besides, the majority of the population, me included, is not able to >>>>> tell whether a dog has "alerted" or not. So all we have is the dog >>>>> handler's word for it. >>>> >>>> That's the beauty of it. And it's super secret, just like the profiling >>>> criteria! >>> >>> That's right. I'm not tipping of the crooks to my procedures. ) >> >> Got a book for your reading list Jaybird: >> (same book different links turned up by google) >> http://www.nrbookservice.com/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c6606 >> http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...SBN=0895260506 >> >> In Men in Black, Mark Levin explodes myth after myth about the federal >> judiciary, including the biggest one of all: the idea that Supreme Court >> judges are somehow imbued with greater insight, wisdom, and vision than >> the rest of us -- and that for some reason Almighty God has endowed them >> with superior judgment about justice and fairness. But as Levin >> demonstrates again and again in these pages, judges are men and women >> with human imperfections and frailties. Some have indeed been brilliant, >> honorable, and moral, but others have been corrupt, unprincipled, racist, >> and even mentally impaired (yes, Levin names names). > > Well of course they're just human. They are the humans who we choose to > represent us to make decisions for us on rulings of our laws. They're not > perfect, but if you are more perfect then they are, I suggest you start > running for election and working your way up. Yet you hold their decisions to be god-like instructions to be followed blindly. And gee, can you get a more tired arguement? You got few million to fund me? I don't kiss ass well enough and lack the initial contacts to work my way up in one of the parties. Not like either would have me anyway. |
#230
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Nate Nagel > wrote in
: > jaybird wrote: > >>>> >>>>Sure there is. First off, it's called ethics, >>> >>>Which is an iffy proposition with cops. IME about 50% of them have >>>them. >> >> >> Well that's your personal opinion, and your fault. I know lots of >> cops and show that figure to be much higher. If cops had ethics,they would write up other cops who speed(no "professional courtesy"),who break other traffic laws without cause. They would turn in cops who they know are doing illegal acts,instead of just keeping silent. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
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