GTR vs. GPL setup controversy

Hi folks, I found the following quote on the BHM site, apparently from
some gpl setup guide:

"There are front and rear sway bars. These suspension devices prevent
the suspension in "rolling or leaning" in the process of turning.
Usage: ARBs are used in the "apex" area of the turn. If the car is
exhibiting an "understeer" problem in the apex of the turn, "increase
more front ARB". OR "decrease rear ARB". If the car is exhibiting an
"oversteer" condition in the apex, "decrease front ARB" OR "increase
rear ARB"."

While the Motec beginner's guide for GTR claims:


The general rule for setting the anti-roll bars is:

More front anti-roll bar = understeer and worse turn-in but more
precise handling

Less front anti-roll bar = oversteer and better turn-in but less
precise handling

More rear anti-roll bar = oversteer and better turn-in to corners

Less rear anti-roll bar = understeer and
worse turn-in to corners

So who's right and who's wrong? Please enlighten me! ;-)

Cheers,

uwe


--
GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

GTR is right; BHM is wrong.

"Uwe Schürkamp" > wrote in message
...
> Hi folks, I found the following quote on the BHM site, apparently from
> some gpl setup guide:
>
> "There are front and rear sway bars. These suspension devices prevent
> the suspension in "rolling or leaning" in the process of turning.
> Usage: ARBs are used in the "apex" area of the turn. If the car is
> exhibiting an "understeer" problem in the apex of the turn, "increase
> more front ARB". OR "decrease rear ARB". If the car is exhibiting an
> "oversteer" condition in the apex, "decrease front ARB" OR "increase
> rear ARB"."
>
> While the Motec beginner's guide for GTR claims:
>
>
> The general rule for setting the anti-roll bars is:
>
> More front anti-roll bar = understeer and worse turn-in but more
> precise handling
>
> Less front anti-roll bar = oversteer and better turn-in but less
> precise handling
>
> More rear anti-roll bar = oversteer and better turn-in to corners
>
> Less rear anti-roll bar = understeer and
> worse turn-in to corners
>
> So who's right and who's wrong? Please enlighten me! ;-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> uwe
>
>
> --
> GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

Yep, unless "more ARB" means "softer ARB", hehehe

And the ARBs are working whenever the car is not moving in a line, i.e.
not only at apex. The apex period of a turn, or the "constant speed"
period can be almost non-existant. The ARBs have an impact on car
behaviour during most of the turn nevertheless...

---A---

Steve Smith wrote:
> GTR is right; BHM is wrong.
>
> "Uwe Schürkamp" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Hi folks, I found the following quote on the BHM site, apparently from
>>some gpl setup guide:
>>
>>"There are front and rear sway bars. These suspension devices prevent
>>the suspension in "rolling or leaning" in the process of turning.
>>Usage: ARBs are used in the "apex" area of the turn. If the car is
>>exhibiting an "understeer" problem in the apex of the turn, "increase
>>more front ARB". OR "decrease rear ARB". If the car is exhibiting an
>>"oversteer" condition in the apex, "decrease front ARB" OR "increase
>>rear ARB"."
>>
>>While the Motec beginner's guide for GTR claims:
>>
>>
>>The general rule for setting the anti-roll bars is:
>>
>>More front anti-roll bar = understeer and worse turn-in but more
>>precise handling
>>
>>Less front anti-roll bar = oversteer and better turn-in but less
>>precise handling
>>
>>More rear anti-roll bar = oversteer and better turn-in to corners
>>
>>Less rear anti-roll bar = understeer and
>>worse turn-in to corners
>>
>>So who's right and who's wrong? Please enlighten me! ;-)
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>uwe
>>
>>
>>--
>>GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61
>
>
>

Uwe Schürkamp wrote:
> Hi folks, I found the following quote on the BHM site, apparently from
> some gpl setup guide:
>
> "There are front and rear sway bars. These suspension devices prevent
> the suspension in "rolling or leaning" in the process of turning.
> Usage: ARBs are used in the "apex" area of the turn. If the car is
> exhibiting an "understeer" problem in the apex of the turn, "increase
> more front ARB". OR "decrease rear ARB". If the car is exhibiting an
> "oversteer" condition in the apex, "decrease front ARB" OR "increase
> rear ARB"."
>
> While the Motec beginner's guide for GTR claims:
>
>
> The general rule for setting the anti-roll bars is:
>
> More front anti-roll bar = understeer and worse turn-in but more
> precise handling
>
> Less front anti-roll bar = oversteer and better turn-in but less
> precise handling
>
> More rear anti-roll bar = oversteer and better turn-in to corners
>
> Less rear anti-roll bar = understeer and
> worse turn-in to corners
>
> So who's right and who's wrong? Please enlighten me! ;-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> uwe
>
>
Do you have a link for the Motec Beginner's Guide to GTR?

Uwe =?iso-8859-15?Q?Sch=FCrkamp?= > wrote in
:

> Hi folks, I found the following quote on the BHM site, apparently from
> some gpl setup guide:
>
> "There are front and rear sway bars. These suspension devices prevent
> the suspension in "rolling or leaning" in the process of turning.
> Usage: ARBs are used in the "apex" area of the turn. If the car is
> exhibiting an "understeer" problem in the apex of the turn, "increase
> more front ARB". OR "decrease rear ARB". If the car is exhibiting an
> "oversteer" condition in the apex, "decrease front ARB" OR "increase
> rear ARB"."
>
> While the Motec beginner's guide for GTR claims:
>
>
> The general rule for setting the anti-roll bars is:
>
> More front anti-roll bar = understeer and worse turn-in but more
> precise handling
>
> Less front anti-roll bar = oversteer and better turn-in but less
> precise handling
>
> More rear anti-roll bar = oversteer and better turn-in to corners
>
> Less rear anti-roll bar = understeer and
> worse turn-in to corners
>
> So who's right and who's wrong? Please enlighten me! ;-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> uwe

I think GTR is more right In sense that the behaviour they describe is
very apparent in long constant radius corners. At the turn-in moment, or at
the apex dampers have more effect, so ARB may not be much noticeable. Not
sure where GPL quote comes from, but in GPL it works correctly. Like GTR
guide says.

Alex.

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 17:53:22 -0500, BRH wrote:
> Do you have a link for the Motec Beginner's Guide to GTR?

Sorry, but no. A colleague sent me that quote, but I can ask him if
you still need it.

uwe


--
GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

Uwe Schürkamp schrieb:
> On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 17:53:22 -0500, BRH wrote:
>
>>Do you have a link for the Motec Beginner's Guide to GTR?
>
>
> Sorry, but no. A colleague sent me that quote, but I can ask him if
> you still need it.
>
> uwe
>
>

http://www.gtr-game.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=557


Michael

Thanks, Michael - EXTREMELY useful link!

"Michael Ziegler" > wrote in message
...
> Uwe Schürkamp schrieb:
> > On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 17:53:22 -0500, BRH wrote:
> >
> >>Do you have a link for the Motec Beginner's Guide to GTR?
> >
> >
> > Sorry, but no. A colleague sent me that quote, but I can ask him if
> > you still need it.
> >
> > uwe
> >
> >
>
> http://www.gtr-game.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=557
>
>
> Michael

I think that article was written long before all things were know about GPL.
The article has been edited so as not to create confusion if someone were to
read it today.

"alexti" > wrote in message
. 233.52...
> Uwe =?iso-8859-15?Q?Sch=FCrkamp?= > wrote in
> :
>
>> Hi folks, I found the following quote on the BHM site, apparently from
>> some gpl setup guide:
>>
>> "There are front and rear sway bars. These suspension devices prevent
>> the suspension in "rolling or leaning" in the process of turning.
>> Usage: ARBs are used in the "apex" area of the turn. If the car is
>> exhibiting an "understeer" problem in the apex of the turn, "increase
>> more front ARB". OR "decrease rear ARB". If the car is exhibiting an
>> "oversteer" condition in the apex, "decrease front ARB" OR "increase
>> rear ARB"."
>>
>> While the Motec beginner's guide for GTR claims:
>>
>>
>> The general rule for setting the anti-roll bars is:
>>
>> More front anti-roll bar = understeer and worse turn-in but more
>> precise handling
>>
>> Less front anti-roll bar = oversteer and better turn-in but less
>> precise handling
>>
>> More rear anti-roll bar = oversteer and better turn-in to corners
>>
>> Less rear anti-roll bar = understeer and
>> worse turn-in to corners
>>
>> So who's right and who's wrong? Please enlighten me! ;-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> uwe
>
> I think GTR is more right In sense that the behaviour they describe is
> very apparent in long constant radius corners. At the turn-in moment, or
> at
> the apex dampers have more effect, so ARB may not be much noticeable. Not
> sure where GPL quote comes from, but in GPL it works correctly. Like GTR
> guide says.
>
> Alex.