Why your car is less reliable than it used to be

http://edn.com/electronics-blogs/eng...it-used-to-be-

bob

On 2014-02-14, bob > wrote:
> http://edn.com/electronics-blogs/eng...it-used-to-be-

Flawed. The 0.1% chance is far too high a guess for modern engineering
requirements.

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 10:56:56 -0600, bob > wrote:

>http://edn.com/electronics-blogs/eng...it-used-to-be-
>
>bob

He starts with his premise and then constructs a fairy tale to support
it. Real world data is the answer to this, not his fairy tale. From
what I've seen in the real world, cars today are as reliable as cars
have ever been. He also ignores the mechanical aspects, back "in the
day" it was not unusual to go thru 3 starters in 100,000 miles. I'm
still on the original starter on my 92 with 155,000 miles. Having
driven fleet cars for many years there is no doubt in my mind that far
far less downtime occurs today then it did back before 1980ish. Who
recalls having a minor tuneup every 6 months and major tune every 12K.
How it was common to do valve jobs every 50K on some engines. And
those carburetor problems and rebuilds every few years.

On 2/14/2014 11:34 AM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 10:56:56 -0600, bob > wrote:
>
>> http://edn.com/electronics-blogs/eng...it-used-to-be-
>>
>> bob
>
> He starts with his premise and then constructs a fairy tale to support
> it. Real world data is the answer to this, not his fairy tale. From
> what I've seen in the real world, cars today are as reliable as cars
> have ever been. He also ignores the mechanical aspects, back "in the
> day" it was not unusual to go thru 3 starters in 100,000 miles. I'm
> still on the original starter on my 92 with 155,000 miles. Having
> driven fleet cars for many years there is no doubt in my mind that far
> far less downtime occurs today then it did back before 1980ish. Who
> recalls having a minor tuneup every 6 months and major tune every 12K.
> How it was common to do valve jobs every 50K on some engines. And
> those carburetor problems and rebuilds every few years.
>
Well, here is my spin on it.

Back in the "OLD" days, you wanted to stay away from used luxury cars
with higher use because the "top end" systems were harder to maintenance
and find parts for. Things like Cadillac and Lincolns come to mind.
Auto climate controls, early automated dash centers, and all sorts of
bell and whistles. Yea, they were great when new, but as they age
and you looking for basic transportation, the maintenance and finding
parts are going to bone you at some time.

As fast as car electronics are going, when these cars are 10/15 years
old, where are the parts coming from and who is going to have a clue
on how to fix them? It goes way beyond what a OBD2 scanner is going to
tell you. YOU get a data buss with 20 devices hanging on it and one
shorts out and kills the whole deal, its going to take a genius to
figure it out. Even a bare bone car these days is full of electronics.
No going back to a Yugo now....

I read about awhile back about a $5000 brake job on a ford escape.
Bull****? NO. Its a hybrid. All the hydraulics and logic are in
a hybrid control module that's a factory only part and costs 4 figures.
This is the kind of issues we all will be dealing with
down the road. Are you still using your computer from 10 or 15 years
ago? Why not? Apply that logic to your car electronics. As reliable
as it can be, stuff does break and will have to be fixed or junked.
Ever price a battery pack for a hybrid auto? Put your depends on.
How long does your cordless drill packs last? That car battery is
not going to last forever either. Down the road, many current gen
hybrids may get junked because its un economical to replace the
battery pack in them

I was at the autoshow this year looking at Hyundai and such.
Look at all the switches on the doors. DO you think all
those Korean switches will hold up 10+ years down the line?
Whos going to stock them when they go bad?
I have already replaced two window switches on my venture van.



Our government does not help the issue either. THE ROHS laws will bite
you down the line (removal of hazardous substances). The reliable
lead solder we used for years was outlawed. The new solder is not
as reliable. It causes issues such as "tin whiskers". And about all
electronics are soldered together on PC boards in some way.

In the not so distant future, its going to be the electronics guy
in the dealer shop who earns the most money

bob

On Saturday, 15 February 2014 00:56:56 UTC+8, bob wrote:
> http://edn.com/electronics-blogs/eng...it-used-to-be-
>
>
>
> bob

The rich pricks who buy luxury cars get rid of them within 3 years.
The pork hunt who buys a 15 year old Jaguar probably has to increase his
credit card limit to repair it. He won't be thinking it is a "quality" car.

In article >, bob > wrote:
>Our government does not help the issue either. THE ROHS laws will bite
>you down the line (removal of hazardous substances). The reliable
>lead solder we used for years was outlawed. The new solder is not
>as reliable. It causes issues such as "tin whiskers". And about all
>electronics are soldered together on PC boards in some way.

That's not our government, Bob. That's a different set of governments,
although sadly it's affecting us a whole lot because globalization means
parts need to be produced so that they can be sold everywhere.

>In the not so distant future, its going to be the electronics guy
>in the dealer shop who earns the most money

Not at all, he just swaps out modules. It's the manufacturer making the
money.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

bob wrote:
> http://edn.com/electronics-blogs/eng...it-used-to-be-
>
>
> bob

cars have computers now? Wow, welcome to 1982.

GW

I agree, my comments were mainly related to cars 0 to 8 years old.
From what I've read, the insulation now being used on the wires in new
cars will be disintegrating by the time they are 15+ years old because
of various environmental laws related to making plastic. Wires that
don't get touched or moved my last for a while longer but wires that
move around much will probably all start shorting out.


On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:28:02 -0600, bob > wrote:

>On 2/14/2014 11:34 AM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 10:56:56 -0600, bob > wrote:
>>
>>> http://edn.com/electronics-blogs/eng...it-used-to-be-
>>>
>>> bob
>>
>> He starts with his premise and then constructs a fairy tale to support
>> it. Real world data is the answer to this, not his fairy tale. From
>> what I've seen in the real world, cars today are as reliable as cars
>> have ever been. He also ignores the mechanical aspects, back "in the
>> day" it was not unusual to go thru 3 starters in 100,000 miles. I'm
>> still on the original starter on my 92 with 155,000 miles. Having
>> driven fleet cars for many years there is no doubt in my mind that far
>> far less downtime occurs today then it did back before 1980ish. Who
>> recalls having a minor tuneup every 6 months and major tune every 12K.
>> How it was common to do valve jobs every 50K on some engines. And
>> those carburetor problems and rebuilds every few years.
>>
>Well, here is my spin on it.
>
>Back in the "OLD" days, you wanted to stay away from used luxury cars
>with higher use because the "top end" systems were harder to maintenance
>and find parts for. Things like Cadillac and Lincolns come to mind.
>Auto climate controls, early automated dash centers, and all sorts of
>bell and whistles. Yea, they were great when new, but as they age
>and you looking for basic transportation, the maintenance and finding
>parts are going to bone you at some time.
>
>As fast as car electronics are going, when these cars are 10/15 years
>old, where are the parts coming from and who is going to have a clue
>on how to fix them? It goes way beyond what a OBD2 scanner is going to
>tell you. YOU get a data buss with 20 devices hanging on it and one
>shorts out and kills the whole deal, its going to take a genius to
>figure it out. Even a bare bone car these days is full of electronics.
>No going back to a Yugo now....
>
>I read about awhile back about a $5000 brake job on a ford escape.
>Bull****? NO. Its a hybrid. All the hydraulics and logic are in
>a hybrid control module that's a factory only part and costs 4 figures.
> This is the kind of issues we all will be dealing with
>down the road. Are you still using your computer from 10 or 15 years
>ago? Why not? Apply that logic to your car electronics. As reliable
>as it can be, stuff does break and will have to be fixed or junked.
>Ever price a battery pack for a hybrid auto? Put your depends on.
>How long does your cordless drill packs last? That car battery is
>not going to last forever either. Down the road, many current gen
>hybrids may get junked because its un economical to replace the
>battery pack in them
>
>I was at the autoshow this year looking at Hyundai and such.
>Look at all the switches on the doors. DO you think all
>those Korean switches will hold up 10+ years down the line?
>Whos going to stock them when they go bad?
>I have already replaced two window switches on my venture van.
>
>
>
>Our government does not help the issue either. THE ROHS laws will bite
>you down the line (removal of hazardous substances). The reliable
>lead solder we used for years was outlawed. The new solder is not
>as reliable. It causes issues such as "tin whiskers". And about all
>electronics are soldered together on PC boards in some way.
>
>In the not so distant future, its going to be the electronics guy
>in the dealer shop who earns the most money
>
>bob

On 2014-02-14, bob > wrote:
> This is the kind of issues we all will be dealing with
> down the road.

Speak for yourself, I plan to continue driving my AMC Hornet indefinitely.
(I've had the car over 35 years now, it will probably outlast me.) No
computers, no electronics to speak of beyond the alternator, distributor,
and AM radio.

But yeah, people who drive the late model stuff are likely to be in
for a rude awakening down the road.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 2/14/2014 6:56 AM, bob wrote:
> http://edn.com/electronics-blogs/eng...it-used-to-be-
>
>
> bob

The electronic controls are needed to meet car exhaust emission
standards. We get to have cleaner air. It's a trade-off. I'm betting
that cars will be more reliable and cheaper to run/maintain when we
switch over to electric vehicles.