power steering problem

T0m $herman wrote "Worst of all was a relative's 1973 Plymouth Duster - steering felt like it was not connected to anything (pretty much the same for the brakes) - "

LMAO!!!!!

Sound EXACTLY like the 2013 Kia Optima I test drove last week during service to my 08 at the dealer's. Which, BTW, is conventional hydraulic and handles like a Beemer in comparion. smh...

T0m $herman wrote "Worst of all was a relative's 1973 Plymouth Duster - steering felt like it was not connected to anything (pretty much the same for the brakes) - "

LMAO!!!!!

Sounds EXACTLY like the 2013 Kia Optima I test drove last week during service to my 08 at the dealer's. Which, BTW, is conventional hydraulic and handles like a Beemer in comparison. smh...

On 2013-11-26, T0m $herman > wrote:
> On 11/23/2013 3:50 PM, wrote:
>> Edwin wrote "well if you mean how fast from turning wheels from either side... to center, such as wheels turned fully to the left then going back to center, is slow and I have to use some arm muscle to get it back to center. (car is flat on ground stationary and engine running) However, turning the wheels "
>>
>> Ooookay. Return-from-turns is a function provided by a combination of caster and kingpin(SAI) angle while your veh. is in motion.
>>
>> In other words, try an experiment: Alone driving the car, no one behind you. Make a right turn onto another street, and let go of the steering wheel.
>>
>> Does the steeringwheel self-center within a reasonable duration, with little or no assistance from you? That is "return-from-turns". It should also be equal coming back from both sides.
>>
>> Big ol' Buicks and Ford Tauri return to center slowwwly. Go-carts, BMWs, and Mazda Miatas center quickly, and also weigh nicely going into a turn. Lamborghinis are tight enough as to feel like they are "on rails". Most other vehicles are somewhere in between.
>>
> The 1975 MG Midget I drove had practically no self-centering, but the
> first generation Renault R5 would come back to center with considerable
> force.
>
> Worst of all was a relative's 1973 Plymouth Duster - steering felt like
> it was not connected to anything (pretty much the same for the brakes) -
> what a POS design.

Drove a dodge diplomat like that once.... the steering wheel had all the
feed back of a Pole Position arcade video game.

On the other hand there is the first generation mazda MX-6 with the 2.2L
turbo where the torque steer would rip the steering wheel from your
grasp

On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 12:11:45 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
> On 2013-11-26, T0m $com wrote:
>
> >> Edwin wrote "well if you mean how fast from turning wheels from either side... to center, such as wheels turned fully to the left then going back to center, is slow and I have to use some arm muscle to get it back to center. (car is flat on ground stationary and engine running) However, turning the wheels "
>
> >>
>
> >> Ooookay. Return-from-turns is a function provided by a combination of caster and kingpin(SAI) angle while your veh. is in motion.
>
> >>
>
> >> In other words, try an experiment: Alone driving the car, no one behind you. Make a right turn onto another street, and let go of the steering wheel.
>
> >>
>
> >> Does the steeringwheel self-center within a reasonable duration, with little or no assistance from you? That is "return-from-turns". It should also be equal coming back from both sides.
>
> >>
>
> >> Big ol' Buicks and Ford Tauri return to center slowwwly. Go-carts, BMWs, and Mazda Miatas center quickly, and also weigh nicely going into a turn. Lamborghinis are tight enough as to feel like they are "on rails". Most other vehicles are somewhere in between.
>
> >>
>
> > The 1975 MG Midget I drove had practically no self-centering, but the
>
> > first generation Renault R5 would come back to center with considerable
>
> > force.
>
> >
>
> > Worst of all was a relative's 1973 Plymouth Duster - steering felt like
>
> > it was not connected to anything (pretty much the same for the brakes) -
>
> > what a POS design.
>
>
>
> Drove a dodge diplomat like that once.... the steering wheel had all the
>
> feed back of a Pole Position arcade video game.
>
>
>
> On the other hand there is the first generation mazda MX-6 with the 2.2L
>
> turbo where the torque steer would rip the steering wheel from your
>
> grasp
_______________

I mean, not to detract from the issues faced by our Escort owner here, but, HOW difficult is it to mfg a vehicle with reasonable steering feel/return?

Since I do understand the principles of wheel alignment, it would seem to me that one shouldn't have to spend $50+G to get that handling, y'know?

On 11/26/2013 2:03 PM, wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 12:11:45 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
>> On 2013-11-26, T0m $com wrote:
>>
>>>> Edwin wrote "well if you mean how fast from turning wheels from either side... to center, such as wheels turned fully to the left then going back to center, is slow and I have to use some arm muscle to get it back to center. (car is flat on ground stationary and engine running) However, turning the wheels "
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Ooookay. Return-from-turns is a function provided by a combination of caster and kingpin(SAI) angle while your veh. is in motion.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> In other words, try an experiment: Alone driving the car, no one behind you. Make a right turn onto another street, and let go of the steering wheel.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Does the steeringwheel self-center within a reasonable duration, with little or no assistance from you? That is "return-from-turns". It should also be equal coming back from both sides.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Big ol' Buicks and Ford Tauri return to center slowwwly. Go-carts, BMWs, and Mazda Miatas center quickly, and also weigh nicely going into a turn. Lamborghinis are tight enough as to feel like they are "on rails". Most other vehicles are somewhere in between.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>> The 1975 MG Midget I drove had practically no self-centering, but the
>>
>>> first generation Renault R5 would come back to center with considerable
>>
>>> force.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Worst of all was a relative's 1973 Plymouth Duster - steering felt like
>>
>>> it was not connected to anything (pretty much the same for the brakes) -
>>
>>> what a POS design.
>>
>>
>>
>> Drove a dodge diplomat like that once.... the steering wheel had all the
>>
>> feed back of a Pole Position arcade video game.
>>
>>
>>
>> On the other hand there is the first generation mazda MX-6 with the 2.2L
>>
>> turbo where the torque steer would rip the steering wheel from your
>>
>> grasp
> _______________
>
> I mean, not to detract from the issues faced by our Escort owner here, but, HOW difficult is it to mfg a vehicle with reasonable steering feel/return?
>
> Since I do understand the principles of wheel alignment, it would seem to me that one shouldn't have to spend $50+G to get that handling, y'know?
>
My Renault R11 had excellent steering feel - at least until one of the
anti-roll bars mounts failed from rust and the end of the bar went
through a tire sidewall.

I wish I could have a similar car, except with reasonable power and
decent build quality - one could fly down dirt roads with the suspension
travel and ground clearance, and handling was good despite the huge
amount of body roll.

--
T0m $herm@n