#3 retard on Distributor cam

Anyone have any good information on this? I would like some input on why it
was necessary, what engines it was used on and over what period of time.
Thanks.

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:55:17 -0400, "Peter"
> scribbled this interesting note:

>Anyone have any good information on this? I would like some input on why it
>was necessary, what engines it was used on and over what period of time.
>Thanks.
>

Have a good read:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...r+retard&meta=


--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

It is a 4 degree (crank degrees) retard on No 3, to compensate for #3
running a bit hotter cause the in-shroud oil cooler blocked / preheated it's
cooling air.
It is needed with the in-shroud oil cooler. If you have a doghouse oil
cooler, then you don't need it.
The distributors for the non-doghouse engines, had this retatd incorporated
in them.

Bill,
'67 Bug.

"Peter" > wrote in message
...
> Anyone have any good information on this? I would like some input on why
> it
> was necessary, what engines it was used on and over what period of time.
> Thanks.
>
>

Peter wrote:
> Anyone have any good information on this? I would like some input on why it
> was necessary, what engines it was used on and over what period of time.
> Thanks.
>
>
only retard on #3 I know of is Jan.....

vwluvrs wrote:
>
> Peter wrote:
> > Anyone have any good information on this? I would like some input on why it
> > was necessary, what engines it was used on and over what period of time.
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> only retard on #3 I know of is Jan.....






Short Bus Special, she says.

hehehe


Jan

Thanks for the link. I have been reading but, so far, I have not read much
that I have not heard before. Much of it is not convincing as to "why",
except for comments made by John Connolly. It seems to me that people are
repeating what they have heard, as fact, or over quoting what they have
read. There is comment in official VW manuals on this stuff, but nothing
particularly explanatory. In fact there seems to be a whole lot of
confusion over which year models are affected!

Anyone have anything concrete to fill in the gaps?

"John Willis" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:55:17 -0400, "Peter"
> > scribbled this interesting note:
>
> >Anyone have any good information on this? I would like some input on why
it
> >was necessary, what engines it was used on and over what period of time.
> >Thanks.
> >
>
> Have a good read:
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...r+retard&meta=
>
>
> --
> John Willis
> (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

"Peter" > wrote in message
...
>
> Thanks for the link. I have been reading but, so far, I have not read
much
> that I have not heard before. Much of it is not convincing as to "why",
> except for comments made by John Connolly. It seems to me that people are
> repeating what they have heard, as fact, or over quoting what they have
> read. There is comment in official VW manuals on this stuff, but nothing
> particularly explanatory. In fact there seems to be a whole lot of
> confusion over which year models are affected!
>
> Anyone have anything concrete to fill in the gaps?
>
>

................."repeating what they have heard" ???

..........Why don't you do your own research and then share your original
thoughts with us. I promise that I won't repeat your findings as my own but
will instead give you credit for your original thoughts that you obtained
from your own direct observations. You could become the next Bob Hoover or
Jake Raby or John Connolly or.............maybe NOT!

..........Fill in your own gaps.

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 05:46:19 -0500, "Tim Rogers" >
wrote:

>"Peter" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Thanks for the link. I have been reading but, so far, I have not read
>much
>> that I have not heard before. Much of it is not convincing as to "why",
>> except for comments made by John Connolly. It seems to me that people are
>> repeating what they have heard, as fact, or over quoting what they have
>> read. There is comment in official VW manuals on this stuff, but nothing
>> particularly explanatory. In fact there seems to be a whole lot of
>> confusion over which year models are affected!
>>
>> Anyone have anything concrete to fill in the gaps?
>>
>>
>
>................"repeating what they have heard" ???
>
>.........Why don't you do your own research and then share your original
>thoughts with us. I promise that I won't repeat your findings as my own but
>will instead give you credit for your original thoughts that you obtained
>from your own direct observations. You could become the next Bob Hoover or
>Jake Raby or John Connolly or.............maybe NOT!
>
>.........Fill in your own gaps.
>

Wow, don't be so hard on him. There's still hope. He could always
buy a sawsall and cut up his bug into a baja and make a website about
it and become the next Shaggie. :-D WHO AMONG US HAS THE BRAVERY!?!?

---

I cannot conceive of a personal God who would directly influence
the actions of individuals, or would directly sit in judgment on
creatures of his own creation. - Albert Einstein

>From: "Tim Rogers"

>
>................"repeating what they have heard" ???
>
>.........Why don't you do your own research and then share your original
>thoughts with us.

<snip>

>.Fill in your own gaps.

hate to say it, but i'm with Tim....MANY people have responded to his post here
(and i believe one on STF?) but they are met with an attitude about it....if
this guy is so sure what is *NOT* the answer then he must know what the answer
is....or maybe he has a desired outcome and any answers that don't match are
"hearsay" or "repeating what they heard"......but of course *anyone* here that
offers up info is going to be repeating what they have heard or read, because i
don't think anyone here was an engineer for vw back in the early days...maybe
we should hunt Lauren up and introduce her and steve, they seem to be a great
match....
-------------------
Chris Perdue
"I'm ever so thankful for the Internet; it has allowed me to keep a finger in
the pie and to make some small contribution to those younger who will carry the
air-cooled legend forward"
Jim Mais
Feb. 2004

"Tim Rogers" > wrote in message
...

> ................"repeating what they have heard" ???
>
> .........Why don't you do your own research and then share your original
> thoughts with us. I promise that I won't repeat your findings as my own
but
> will instead give you credit for your original thoughts that you obtained
> from your own direct observations. You could become the next Bob Hoover or
> Jake Raby or John Connolly or.............maybe NOT!
>
> .........Fill in your own gaps.

In my experience, much of what people have to say is handed down from one
source or another. In the case of specific information, when it comes from
a verifiable reference, it can be trusted, to a degree. I have read a fair
bit of people comments on this subject going back nine years and I have seen
little that can be verified, leaving us in the realms of virtual rumour.
Very few offer more than a "check the official manuals" but, when I do,
there is very little on the subject. The Type 1 Bentley manual for 66-69
barely mentions it as "on some engines" but does not explain it. The 70-79
manual does not appear to mention it at all, despite 70 being the last year
for the old fan shroud (except for 1200's). So far, I have not found any
reference to it in other official workshop manual that I have, although I
have seen it on VW distributor data sheets. But, again, these only state
that it exists and sometimes in contradiction with other official VW
publications. I don't have access to the 61-65 Bentley, right now, so it
would be nice if someone could check that one out for me, as the retard was
supposed to have been introduced for the 65 model year. I would hope that
someone has one of those VW bulletins that usually explain the why's and
wherefores very well.

John Connolly actually tested distributors, which is a pretty sure-fire
method of identifying what does and does not have the retard, but still may
not fill in all the gaps. He also has similar opinions on the subject as
did Gene Berg, which make a great deal of sense. Much of the debate has, in
the past, revolved around the 009, so the research done by others does not
always cover the area which I have questioned. Anyone who can test their
original distributor and submit the results with the VW (or Bosch) part
number, would go a long way to disproving (not proving) some of the opinions
or theories. Meanwhile, anyone who can submit the reference material that
can knock this on the head, would be very much appreciated.