Help! Need your opinion...

Hi...

I'm looking for help and opinions....My father (age 68) has a 2002 Vue,
(6cyl, AWD). Upon returning from the hospital where my mom had just been
diagnosed with cancer, he was pulling into the driveway when he got a low
water light. Being in an upset state of mind, he said he opened the hood
(it was at night) and added about two gallons of water/antifreeze to the cap
in the front. Apparently, Saturn put the oil fill (with no words that say
"Oil", just a picture of what he thought was a water can in the dark) near
the radiator for easy access. Yup, he added the water to the oil. The good
thing is that he realized what he did as soon as he did it, but couldn't get
under the car to drain the oil, so he figured it wouldn't hurt to start it
for a minute to put it up on the ramps. After draining the oil (and water)
he added new oil and then got only a click-click when trying to restart.
Got it towed to Saturn for free, but here's where he asked me what I
thought, so I'm turning to you. Saturn says he needs a new engine, and
here's the costs: A new engine from the plant installed: $10K. They
shopped around for a used and found one from a rear end collision with
25,000 miles on it and will do it for $4,500. (His vue had 33K). Now I
have my own mechanic and asked him about the situation, and he said he can
guarantee he doesn't need a new engine and said something about hydraulics,
and that there was so much water sitting on top of the pistons that it had
no where to go, which is why the engine clicked - the starter couldn't turn
it over (or something to that effect. - I kind of lost him) So hears my
question - what would you do? He's so depressed right now between what he
calls an "asinine mistake", "that he should have known better" and my
mother's medical issue that I want to be confident in what to tell him is
the right thing to do...I know this is long, but I appreciate any help.

Thanks,
Scott MacIntyre

Take out the spark plugs and pull the fuel pump fuse. Also disconnect the
coil pack (not sure if this engine has a coil pack though). Once the plugs
are out drain the oil and refill with clean oil (use cheap stuff) and spin
the engine over. Water should shoot out of cylinders. Drain oil again, put
plugs back reconnect fuse and coil pack. Start and warm up GENTLY. It
wouldn't be a bad idea to put some SeaFoam in the oil at this point prior to
warm up. Once warmed. Change oil and filter again. Use good stuff this time.
Add a little SeaFoam to this oil change also (maybe 2 oz.). Change again
after about 500 miles and all should be well.
Larry
"Scott MacIntyre" > wrote in message
...
> Hi...
>
> I'm looking for help and opinions....My father (age 68) has a 2002 Vue,
> (6cyl, AWD). Upon returning from the hospital where my mom had just been
> diagnosed with cancer, he was pulling into the driveway when he got a low
> water light. Being in an upset state of mind, he said he opened the hood
> (it was at night) and added about two gallons of water/antifreeze to the
> cap
> in the front. Apparently, Saturn put the oil fill (with no words that say
> "Oil", just a picture of what he thought was a water can in the dark) near
> the radiator for easy access. Yup, he added the water to the oil. The
> good
> thing is that he realized what he did as soon as he did it, but couldn't
> get
> under the car to drain the oil, so he figured it wouldn't hurt to start it
> for a minute to put it up on the ramps. After draining the oil (and
> water)
> he added new oil and then got only a click-click when trying to restart.
> Got it towed to Saturn for free, but here's where he asked me what I
> thought, so I'm turning to you. Saturn says he needs a new engine, and
> here's the costs: A new engine from the plant installed: $10K. They
> shopped around for a used and found one from a rear end collision with
> 25,000 miles on it and will do it for $4,500. (His vue had 33K). Now I
> have my own mechanic and asked him about the situation, and he said he can
> guarantee he doesn't need a new engine and said something about
> hydraulics,
> and that there was so much water sitting on top of the pistons that it had
> no where to go, which is why the engine clicked - the starter couldn't
> turn
> it over (or something to that effect. - I kind of lost him) So hears my
> question - what would you do? He's so depressed right now between what
> he
> calls an "asinine mistake", "that he should have known better" and my
> mother's medical issue that I want to be confident in what to tell him is
> the right thing to do...I know this is long, but I appreciate any help.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott MacIntyre
>
>

Why would there be water on top of the cylinders, if the antifreeze was added to the crankcase? That makes no sense. If
it's coming from the crankcase, then the rings or valve seals are gone.

Running an engine with anti-freeze in the crankcase can destroy an engine. The problem is that the antifreeze prevents
the oil from lubricating properly. Without proper lube of course the rings and bearings and any other metal-on-metal
bearing surface gets destroyed by friction.

Follow jdoe/Larry's advice (pull the fuel pump fuse and plugs, crank it until the cylinders are cleared out, etc.). If
the antifreeze really did get into the crankcase and it was only running for a minute or so, he might be fine. I
wouldn't worry about an engine swap until I knew for certain the engine was junk. Have your mechanic test the
compression on each cylinder (this will tell you the state of the rings/seals). If it's good and you can get the engine
fired up, make certain you run some sort of detergent through the oil to ensure you've gotten all of the water/glycol
out of there (SeaFoam might be good enough - I don't know).

If it fires up and the compression is good, then drive it till it stops. If you're lucky, then worst-case, he only
knocked a few years/few thousand miles off of it.

Best regards, and sorry to hear about your Mom.


"Scott MacIntyre" > wrote in message ...
> Hi...
>
> I'm looking for help and opinions....My father (age 68) has a 2002 Vue,
> (6cyl, AWD). Upon returning from the hospital where my mom had just been
> diagnosed with cancer, he was pulling into the driveway when he got a low
> water light. Being in an upset state of mind, he said he opened the hood
> (it was at night) and added about two gallons of water/antifreeze to the cap
> in the front. Apparently, Saturn put the oil fill (with no words that say
> "Oil", just a picture of what he thought was a water can in the dark) near
> the radiator for easy access. Yup, he added the water to the oil. The good
> thing is that he realized what he did as soon as he did it, but couldn't get
> under the car to drain the oil, so he figured it wouldn't hurt to start it
> for a minute to put it up on the ramps. After draining the oil (and water)
> he added new oil and then got only a click-click when trying to restart.
> Got it towed to Saturn for free, but here's where he asked me what I
> thought, so I'm turning to you. Saturn says he needs a new engine, and
> here's the costs: A new engine from the plant installed: $10K. They
> shopped around for a used and found one from a rear end collision with
> 25,000 miles on it and will do it for $4,500. (His vue had 33K). Now I
> have my own mechanic and asked him about the situation, and he said he can
> guarantee he doesn't need a new engine and said something about hydraulics,
> and that there was so much water sitting on top of the pistons that it had
> no where to go, which is why the engine clicked - the starter couldn't turn
> it over (or something to that effect. - I kind of lost him) So hears my
> question - what would you do? He's so depressed right now between what he
> calls an "asinine mistake", "that he should have known better" and my
> mother's medical issue that I want to be confident in what to tell him is
> the right thing to do...I know this is long, but I appreciate any help.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott MacIntyre
>
>

In article >,
says...
> Hi...
>
> I'm looking for help and opinions....My father (age 68) has a 2002 Vue,
> (6cyl, AWD). Upon returning from the hospital where my mom had just been
> diagnosed with cancer, he was pulling into the driveway when he got a low
> water light. Being in an upset state of mind, he said he opened the hood
> (it was at night) and added about two gallons of water/antifreeze to the cap
> in the front. Apparently, Saturn put the oil fill (with no words that say
> "Oil", just a picture of what he thought was a water can in the dark) near
> the radiator for easy access. Yup, he added the water to the oil. The good
> thing is that he realized what he did as soon as he did it, but couldn't get
> under the car to drain the oil, so he figured it wouldn't hurt to start it
> for a minute to put it up on the ramps. After draining the oil (and water)
> he added new oil and then got only a click-click when trying to restart.
> Got it towed to Saturn for free, but here's where he asked me what I
> thought, so I'm turning to you. Saturn says he needs a new engine, and
> here's the costs: A new engine from the plant installed: $10K. They
> shopped around for a used and found one from a rear end collision with
> 25,000 miles on it and will do it for $4,500. (His vue had 33K). Now I
> have my own mechanic and asked him about the situation, and he said he can
> guarantee he doesn't need a new engine and said something about hydraulics,
> and that there was so much water sitting on top of the pistons that it had
> no where to go, which is why the engine clicked - the starter couldn't turn
> it over (or something to that effect. - I kind of lost him) So hears my
> question - what would you do? He's so depressed right now between what he
> calls an "asinine mistake", "that he should have known better" and my
> mother's medical issue that I want to be confident in what to tell him is
> the right thing to do...I know this is long, but I appreciate any help.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott MacIntyre

First off most of what I'm going to write is going to be more of a rant
than an opinion. Also we all make mistakes in life. I've made a few
costly mistakes and I'm bound to make more by the time I reach my 60's.

Considering water is not a lubricant and with that much in the engine
any revolution to the crank would scrape the bearing surfaces. Running
it would of flat out destroyed them. This being a 2002 six cylinder and
costing 10 grand to replace I have no doubt that this is the 3.5 HONDA
engine? Just so you know Honda made the oil fill cap, not Saturn. This
is one reason why I tell people not to buy foreign cars or engines.

A brand new LS1 (corvette motor) list for $8500 but can be picked up
anywhere for $5900. Think about that compaired to that "Honda"... A GM
3800 series II crate motor (best 6cyl on the market) can be had for
$2500. New 3800 crate motors that people never got around to using can
be bought on ebay for well under a Grand. 3800's are as common as dirt
but get into those Japanesse engines that are imported and get altered
every other year and you'll pay out the ass to replace them...

People think all this Jap $@#$ is invincible and none of it is. If its
imported as a complete car it sounds like a deal, if its imported as a
part it becomes two or four times as much when compaired to a domesitic!

Sorry about the situation you and your families going through but that
kind of money for an engine seems crazy to me. I bought a 3 year old
pontiac bonneville with 73k on the OD for 5000 bucks. Why any used late
model engine would be worth that is beyond me. I think he would be
better off buying a used car and getting what he can out of the Vue. A
new vehicle to me is like throwing away money, this is like throwing
even more away...

The only idea I have if you want to replace the engine is to find out
how compatible the 3.5 engines in Honda's are. If they're close you
could probably increase your potential of getting a better price on a
used engine. Theres one on ebay now that goes to a 02-04 Odyssey (52k
miles). Some parts like the intake or oil filter placement might be
different but if everything that makes up the "Long block" is the same
you can pull parts off the vue's engine and stick them on it to make it
work I would think. Also shop around some more for price quotes.

In article <4THwd.675449$mD.668903@attbi_s02>,
se says...
> Why would there be water on top of the cylinders, if the antifreeze was added to the crankcase? That makes no sense. If
> it's coming from the crankcase, then the rings or valve seals are gone.
>
>

Thats what I was thinking...? I figured something got garbled in the
passing of information which happens on here a lot. It couldnt be
"hydrolocked", the bearings probably welded everything together.

"Blah blah" > wrote in message ...
> In article >,
> says...
> it would of flat out destroyed them. This being a 2002 six cylinder and
> costing 10 grand to replace I have no doubt that this is the 3.5 HONDA
> engine?

The Honda V6 didn't go in until 2004. The 2002 would be the Opel I believe.

But yes, 10K does seem excessive.

In article <axJwd.254354$HA.113162@attbi_s01>,
se says...
> "Blah blah" > wrote in message ...
> > In article >,
> > says...
> > it would of flat out destroyed them. This being a 2002 six cylinder and
> > costing 10 grand to replace I have no doubt that this is the 3.5 HONDA
> > engine?
>
> The Honda V6 didn't go in until 2004. The 2002 would be the Opel I believe.
>
> But yes, 10K does seem excessive.

Thats right, I was thinking it changed in 02'. Same problem applies
though, still imported. I think they might also be tacking a lot more
labor cost on than they should. A break down in labor and parts cost
would be insightful.

"Peter Young" > wrote in message
news:4THwd.675449$mD.668903@attbi_s02...
> Why would there be water on top of the cylinders, if the antifreeze was
> added to the crankcase? That makes no sense.

Possibly it got sucked through the PCV route?

Thanks for all the suggestions - Before I could talk to him, he ok'ed the
engine install from the wreck with 28K on it. I think the new engine for
10K was way out of line, but if it's new from the factory, would that have
made it a Honda? Anyway, the reason he ok'ed the used engine was that as he
loading the dishwasher while pondering the decision and after turning it on,
the dishwasher seized up/fried. My poor dad - what a week he having! He
was afraid to go to his model railroad club worried he'd drop/wreck his $700
train....Anyway, I think he'll have the engine put in and drive it for
while, then trade it in. Good news is that my mom just got out of surgery
and prognosis looks good! So hopefully, thinks are on the up for Pop!!

Thanks again,
Scott

"Blah blah" > wrote in message
...
> In article <axJwd.254354$HA.113162@attbi_s01>,
> se says...
> > "Blah blah" > wrote in message
...
> > > In article >,
> > > says...
> > > it would of flat out destroyed them. This being a 2002 six cylinder
and
> > > costing 10 grand to replace I have no doubt that this is the 3.5 HONDA
> > > engine?
> >
> > The Honda V6 didn't go in until 2004. The 2002 would be the Opel I
believe.
> >
> > But yes, 10K does seem excessive.
>
> Thats right, I was thinking it changed in 02'. Same problem applies
> though, still imported. I think they might also be tacking a lot more
> labor cost on than they should. A break down in labor and parts cost
> would be insightful.

"Scott MacIntyre" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for all the suggestions - Before I could talk to him, he
ok'ed the
> engine install from the wreck with 28K on it. I think the new
engine for
> 10K was way out of line, but if it's new from the factory, would
that have
> made it a Honda? Anyway, the reason he ok'ed the used engine was
that as he
> loading the dishwasher while pondering the decision and after
turning it on,
> the dishwasher seized up/fried. My poor dad - what a week he
having! He
> was afraid to go to his model railroad club worried he'd drop/wreck
his $700
> train....Anyway, I think he'll have the engine put in and drive it
for
> while, then trade it in. Good news is that my mom just got out of
surgery
> and prognosis looks good! So hopefully, thinks are on the up for
Pop!!
>
> Thanks again,
> Scott
>

At least the most important thing has worked out good. Cars and
dishwashers can be replaced, Mom can't.

Best Wishes, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Ken